Posted: 2/5/2015 2:43 PM
Post subject: Global known improvements list?
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feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11268
Location: RU
NES TAS of 2011
What if we create a thread where people could post published runs with known improvements (and a few hints on what the improvements are, and their size) to help others get ideas on what to TAS next? Just like Wishlist or WIPs threads, which however aren't so strict to getting a runner involved or inspired. For example [1810] NES Battletoads & Double Dragon: The Ultimate Team "2 players" by feos in 17:41.14 Can be improved quite a lot by using void jumps in Level 3, tight lag management and insane enemy manipulation (requires disasm). [1930] NES Zen: Intergalactic Ninja by feos in 11:34.21 Can be improved (not by much) by getting extra health in bonus levels, probably also first boss. [2212] NES James Bond Jr. by feos in 18:29.84 Can be improved by disasming AI and manipulating it (will be annoying as hell due to constant desyncs in future after any improvement in the past). Looks like these'd be better put on wiki, but no one forbids using a thread for getting actual ideas, and wiki for systematizing them.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 2/5/2015 3:20 PM
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ALAKTORN
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Player (99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
DS TAS of 2012
This topic reminded me that Mothrayas and Rolanmen were supposed to be working on a MMZX improvement. [1720] DS Mega Man ZX by Noxxa & Rolanmen1 in 1:09:14.29 Better RNG manipulation, better route, better optimization.
Mothrayas wrote:
The old run could use some more polish, and make use of some improvements like the small route change to B-3 and using Vent instead of Aile (to save on dialogue/cutscene time).
[2413] PSX Tenchu: Stealth Assassins (USA) by Hâthor in 29:52.65 Actually TASing the game instead of just playing through it with slowdown. Me and NK started a run of it but I always end up dropping my projects. WiP that saves like over 10 seconds in the first stage alone: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/18269789872301701
Posted: 2/5/2015 3:27 PM
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adelikat
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Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3598)
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Posts: 4738
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TASer of 2010 NES TASer of 2010 DS TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 NES TASer of 2008 NES TAS of 2008 Funny TAS of 2008 TASer of 2007 NES TASer of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
Why have a wiki? I think this topic serves the purpose just fine, I suggest renaming the topic accordingly.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Posted: 2/5/2015 5:30 PM
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ars4326
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Experienced player (764)
Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
This thread gave me an idea. How about linking all of the game wikis along with the corresponding resource page?
It can just be labeled 'Game Wiki'
And, if the community thinks it's a good idea, you can include all of a current publication's known improvements within the Wiki section. Long-term, I believe this would be a smart idea over having a singular thread with potentially dozens of publication posts to sift through (which will also become obsoleted, themselves, over time).
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
Posted: 2/5/2015 6:20 PM
(Edited: 2/6/2015 4:54 AM)
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Tangent
Joined: 3/9/2009
Posts: 530
[842] NES Mickey Mousecapade (USA) by Randil & CtrlAltDestroy in 07:23.68 First stage route is extremely improvable and affects routing/strategy for the rest of the game. The Minnie kidnapping recovery 'minigame' always deposits you on the bottom left corner of the screen. There are two possible places this can be used to save time. See green arrows. The left is a huge save on the way back, the right is (likely) a minor save on the way there. Note that this makes it much less of a detour to collect the second weapon so will probably save time later to do so. Also, route on the way there (killing the cat) will probably need to be modified, and Minnie's presence both saves and costs time in different places, so some thought has to be put into the best spot to get her kidnapped. Note that deaths behave the same way, but getting hit that many times takes forever.
Posted: 2/5/2015 7:59 PM
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Aqfaq
Editor, Expert player (2460)
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Sega TASer of 2008 Lucky TAS of 2008
The author often lists known improvements at the end of the submission message. There are also game specific threads that anyone interested in tasing a game should read anyway. I'm not quite sure I understand the benefit of a global list. Well, okay, it might encourage somebody to be able to browse a simple page listing publications with notable and specific known improvements. I think most of the improvements I know are too obvious and general to be worth mentioning: better subpixel optimization, better RNG manipulation, just use more rerecords, use even more rerecords, use Aglar, etc.