Post by Mlandry

Posted: 10/30/2005 8:05 PM

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Saturn

Player (209)

Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451

...or continue Tilus's TAS.

See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun

Posted: 11/10/2005 6:21 AM

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I was wondering if it is possible to beat the game via the warp that goes to lavos that you can access as soon as you get to the end of time (I think directly after the first 600 ad scenario). Or does Gaspar stop you? If you can, isn't this the fastest way from a new game? ... or is it impossible to manipulate the Lavos fight enough to survive? edit: or maybe you go to the end of time after the jailbreak... my memory is rusty.

Posted: 11/10/2005 7:57 AM

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Zurreco

Former player

Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA

I'm fairly sure the very minimal damage you wil do to any part of Lavos at that point will make an attempt very pointless. You don't even have any skills at that point, I don't think, which would make it so that even if you could manipulate the fight to never take damage and to do maximum damage to Lavos, it would still probably take hours over an any% attempt.

hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine

Posted: 11/10/2005 9:14 AM

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Kyrsimys

Former player

Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland

Didn't Tilus try to kill Lavos as soon as possible in his TAS? I think he came to the conclusion that it's impossible to kill Lavos as soon as you have the chance because of the "Destruction rains from the Heavens" event right at the beginning of the battle. Even if you could survive that, all the points Zurreco posted above would still apply.

Posted: 11/10/2005 1:36 PM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

He/Him

Active player (277)

Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

Yeah, all the extra boss fights might take too much time and energy.

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 11/10/2005 2:46 PM

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Tilus

Former player

Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177

Yeah, bosses can't be manipulated nearly as well as you might think. In fact, Lavos 1 and 2's actions go by a very specific pattern (for example, if I remember correctly, 1's is 'Destruction Rains from Heavens!'/Chaotic Gate/Lavos Spawn Needle/repeat). So far the only luck manipulation I've found throughout the entire game is the target which enemies attack you with can be manipulated depending on your previous actions, but even then that's not manipulateable very well. And yeah, you're going to need to be around level 35 (or go WAY out of your way to go through about a half dozen events inaccessible until near the end of the game and gain a whole bunch of TP with certain characters, which wastes much more time than it saves) in order to be able to merely survive Lavos's most powerful attacks, which it uses frequently.

Posted: 11/10/2005 3:30 PM

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Saturn

Player (209)

Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451

The main problem against lavos is status protection. Even if you survive the "Destruction Rains from the heavens" he will confuse all of your characters with his chaos spell. At the same time all your status will decrease and since all 3 characters are confused you won't even be able to heal yourself and just await the killer blow. You are basicly without chance in any case to win against lavos until you have Armor that protects status and this Armor you can only get after the Ocean Palace disaster where the sidequests start. However you could easily defeat Lavos continueing Tilus run by just geting the needed equipment and some MegaElixiers in the Black Omen which wouldn't take more than 20 min in total. I still can't understand why someone works so hard for this game and just stops so close to the end without a real reason, but well not everything is logical.

See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun

Posted: 11/10/2005 4:57 PM

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DeHackEd

Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Former player

Joined: 11/6/2004
Posts: 833

It was a test run. Always was. I don't think tilus ever intended to submit it, even though I'd probably vote yes for it. Though I wish I could read stuff (no speaky japanese), tilus has shown a candidate route, how much manipulation can benefit, and you can get approximations to what supplies you'll need. If anyone was curious, the tilus' game's internal clock read 4:32 between crashing into Lavos and Lavos Core 1.

Posted: 11/10/2005 6:01 PM

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Saturn

Player (209)

Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451

Didn't knew it was a test run, that explains it then. Now I'm seriously thinking of starting a full any% TAS for this game soon. I feel that the experience I got for it in the last years must be recorded somewhere.

See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun

Posted: 11/10/2005 11:55 PM

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sp0n

Joined: 12/7/2004
Posts: 13

I was entertaining foolish ideas that you could break this game apart. Not nearly as much as Dragon Warrior or Final Fantasy 5, but enough to be able to do whatever you want to do. How unfortunate. For such an easy game I have to admit the last fight is always difficult (without new game +, even then the fight lasts a long time.. I am thinking it should be possible to beat Lavos as soon as you get the epoch with wings (after the Undersea palace/Blackbird). Use the Epoch to crash into Lavos and eliminate the first fight. But the REAL challenge of this run is deciding what to collect before that point. Once you have free reign of the Epoch you can collect many time-saving things. The balance between powering up and time really begins here. This is all probably pretty obvious. I haven't watched any of the runs. In a real game the fastest way I found to level was the conveyer belt at the beginning of the Geno Dome. If time needs to be taken out of zipping around to level I wonder if its quicker to level up at the Geno Dome and use the Epoch to crash into Lavos or to go through the Black Omen (with Nu's selling uber-stuff near the end, too). It would be more interesting to see a run through the Black Omen though.... Regardless of all this pondering I think a full run needs to be published just to encourage people to try to beat it.

Posted: 11/14/2005 9:25 PM

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hero_of_the_day

Player (88)

Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States

I recently started getting interested in this game after watching David Gibbons awsome run over at the SDA. I have been tinkering with some new ideas and have come up with a run that is much faster than his. Here is a WIP right up to the defeat of magus. I am about 17 minutes ahead of David's run at this point in the game and I hope to pick up another 20 or so minutes in the rest of the game. Feedback would be appreciated. Heres the movie: All sync settings are checked using the latest snes9x improvement http://www.angelfire.com/nj/NJHC6/chrono_wip1.smv

They're off to find the hero of the day...

Posted: 11/14/2005 11:57 PM
(Edited: 11/15/2005 1:09 AM)

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Saturn

Player (209)

Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451

What the hell???? Someone makes a TAS-run of this game, did it until Magus already and never even mentioned something before? Anyway I will check it out. EDIT: Watched it. The Berserker was surely a good choice against some bosses and the strategy not taking Frog to Spekkio to get Magic before Magus also saved some time. Keep up the good work and even if it is your first run for only 750 rerecords in 2 hours the movie is very good so far. And being the first player who makes a complete Chrono Trigger TAS-run that can get published on this site should be a good motivation to complete it and to set a new time-record in this game so far. Good luck!

See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun

Posted: 11/15/2005 12:23 AM

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ventuz

He/Him

Player (123)

Joined: 10/4/2004
Posts: 940

Nice job for first timer, few things that I see... 38300's - Don't have to speak to lady at piano, just "talk" to spark/ground I bet motion "bump" does cause you slow-down. Try to eliminate some of motion "bump", when you are making turns / entering doorway, (such as 44840 -stair and 46850 -doorway) About the racing, I think you could go faster if you always get Johnny bumping your car. Could you luck-manipulate critical hit and monster's action? (I don't remember if you could, haven't play CT / watch TAS of it for a while) Have you seen Tilus's WIP TAS of it? Have you compare to see if yours is faster?

Posted: 11/15/2005 12:28 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

He/Him

Active player (277)

Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

I think you want to hit the finish line as fast as possible, so use a boost when you've been bounced ahead by Johnny.

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 11/15/2005 1:42 AM

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hero_of_the_day

Player (88)

Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States

yeah, the race can most likely be done faster. I think you are correct about staying infront of johnny, but since this was just a WIP i didnt want to spend too much time on the race. I have seen tilus' run and it is tough to compare to mine due to the huge handicap of slow moving english text. However i think my movie is still ahead of his, although im not positive. Luck manipulation is very strange in this game, enemy actions dont seem to be affected by your input at certain frames, rather what attacks or items you use. Critical hits are very random and cannot be manipulated to occur once the battle has begun. Very little luck manipulation was used in my test run, and i predict that in my final run i can shave off a few more minutes with enough effort.

They're off to find the hero of the day...

Posted: 11/16/2005 4:44 AM

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Megaman951

Joined: 6/11/2004
Posts: 35
Location: Quebec, Canada

I can't download the wip, angelfire seems to have removed the downoad link from their website...

Posted: 11/16/2005 6:23 AM

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Dromiceius

Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332

Eh? It's right here.

Posted: 11/16/2005 12:35 PM

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Spoony_Bard

Former player

Joined: 8/17/2004
Posts: 377

Seems good for a WIP thus far. During the battle with the R-Series wouldn't it have been better to use Cyclone on the first group twice in a row, thus eliminating them right away instead of attacking them once then damaging the second group, leaving all six to assault you? Also, in the battle with Slash, at the end you waste a Mid-Tonic right before he dies, and you wind up using a Shelter immediately after the battle so the HP restored by the Mid-Tonic was a waste. Of course, you've probably already accounted for it... Still, it's good to see a renewed effort in this game.

Posted: 11/16/2005 2:38 PM

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Cmuxmt

Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 79

Dromiceius wrote:

Eh? It's right here.

Maybe I am stupid... But I think this is a different WIP of a different author...

Posted: 11/16/2005 3:41 PM

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Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (968)

Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden

You're not stupid. And I can't download hero of the day's WIP either, angelfire seems to have removed it.

Posted: 11/16/2005 4:10 PM

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ventuz

He/Him

Player (123)

Joined: 10/4/2004
Posts: 940

yeah look like angelfire removed it. I still have it, hosted on my homestead -> http://ventuz.homestead.com/files/chrono_wip1.zip

Posted: 11/16/2005 4:27 PM

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hero_of_the_day

Player (88)

Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States

yea the mid tonic was a waste in the slash fight, dont worry it will be fixed in a new version. The reason why i didnt kill off a line of robots in the the r-series battle was that once one line is eliminated, the remaining three robots will start to use that annoying attack where they toss your character back and forth which causes some serious damage, and the animation takes a long time too. About the lady on the piano in the cathedral, i am almost certain that the sparkle does not appear until after you talk to her. stupid angelfire, i need to find a better place to host my files. thanks for posting my wip ventuz.

They're off to find the hero of the day...

Posted: 11/17/2005 4:58 AM

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Kitsune

Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212

Is this a 100% run of the game? The last Chrono Trigger run I downloaded, which wasn't Saturn's at all, was a big disappointment to me. Got it off of the Speed Demos Archive.. Well, anyway. I'll download the WIP, hehe. A 100%, new game + run with maxed out characters might be interesting to see in the future, yes? ;3

Posted: 11/17/2005 5:47 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

He/Him

Active player (277)

Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

What do you define as 100%?

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude