I like the idea of and Atlas encode too, but It maybe will be hard right? Because sometimes the camera need to be split in 2 simultaneously when S and T they separates to pick up rings, I'm just talking to talk, maybe it's not hard at all.
About JXQ questions here are the answers:
JXQ wrote:
HC1
2:24 - Why does Sonic bounce up high at the end? (I assume for a favorable global timer in HC2)
Yes, in the next act this manipulates the position of the pipe at 0:17 in HCZ2, to not waste time waiting for it and saving IGT.
JXQ wrote:
HC2
1:20 - Does Sonic bouncing up in the hand spinning thing cost any time? Does it help anything or just look different?
2:03 - How does Sonic survive on these spikes?
2:05 - Would it be faster/possible to get Tails to spawn/land earlier and fly Sonic across these spikes? (Maybe that would lose time on the boss?)
1:20 :No, the jump does not waste time, Tails is interacting with this booster and does not let it deactivate, the jump is only for entertainment.
2:03 :If you open Gens-s3 with solidity display, you can see that is "blue" solidity at the same height of the spikes, Sonic bounces in a precise frame the interact with the solidity instead of the spikes.
2:05 It's more slow I guess, maybe kaan can aswer that better, they redo the levels recently.
JXQ wrote:
MG1
Why generate the fire shield at the end of act 1? (Spend time for a global timer again, just with something cool looking?)
The fire shield is generated for a faster start in the next ACT, if you see MGZ2 we start with a spindash and continued running, a jump at the begining to the breakable wall will be more slow obviously.
JXQ wrote:
CN1
Same question on generating unnecessary shields at the end of act 1 - global timer manipulation?
The was playaround, fun fact: If you hear the bubble shield at the end you can feel that says "Wooooow" :)
JXQ wrote:
CN2
1:40 - Could you repeatedly bubble shield this red spinner downward instead of going around the fans?
2:26 - The balloon bouncing *seems* a little snow but it's unclear whether that would matter anyway due to the timed object (spinning set of 3 bumpers) at 2:30
3:31 - How does Sonic go through the wall here? Is this a consequence of being on the Knuckles route somewhere else?
1:40 : Yes, but I the gravity thing pulls me back above an don't let me grab the 4 rings group.
2:26 : In CNZ there are some sloppy rooms that I overlooked in the past, maybe this level need to be redone too, but looks satisfactory beyond that.
3:31 : In fact, when "Knuckles" (Sonic here) reaches the end of this path where the boosters start, the pathswitchs changes inside the wall to let Sonic grab the monitors and the last giant ring.
JXQ wrote:
IC1
1:47 - Why not use the springs and platforms here? (I actually know it's to preserve the slope glitch but that's not obvious at first)
2:10 - An explanation what happens here would be helpful. I think I understand it - both bosses are spawned by Tails falling below, the one above is killed, the one below is almost killed and saved for later in Act 2 to kill midway through, in order to get 2 signposts to get both sets of underground ringboxes.
1:47 : Yes, is for maintain the slope glitch, Tails is essential in this part.
2:10 : In fact, that's it, don't has much science.
JXQ wrote:
LB1
Is it possible to fight the Knuckles Act 1 boss instead of the Sonic boss to keep Act 2's water level down (while still getting all of Act 1's rings, or maybe having to come back for them from Area 2 via bonus stage level border resetting, if that's even possible...)
It's possible but the water level will be the same, the water level is affected when you are using Sonic or Knuckles, not for the boss defeated, and the main reason is that Sonic/Tails boss has 2 signpost ring monitors and the bubble shield, Knuckles only has 1 singpost ring monitor.
I tested in the past and is possible to defeat only a Knuckles boss and maintain alive the other, but you need to be close to the boss to not let despawn (If I remember) and I don't found a way to enter in Sonic's boss room above and grab the monitors.
JXQ wrote:
LB2
2:13 - Why detour to the left for a second, up the side of the wall, before turning around?
4:05 - Could you detour back to the Knuckles boss around 3:38 instead and save time overall here?
2:13 : Where is the flamethrower there is a route switch, kaan activates it to interact with the ramp at 2:14.
4:05 : This loses a lot of In-game time wich this TAS is aimed too.
JXQ wrote:
MH1
At the end of the act, could you regain control of Sonic to begin Act 2 like in some previous TASes? Or does this make total ring collection impossible?
Yes, but I chose to maintain the transition normal and the ring counter clear, and see how Tails betray Sonic at the begining!
JXQ wrote:
FB1
0:55 - Why the extra little hop before spin-dashing to the left?
That was for avoid the 30-frame inmovilization that the ramp give me before and spindash more sooner.
About the AIZ1/2 boundary Sonic never can't fight Knuckles boss because the boundary always will kill him, and the boss always spawns in his respective path.
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1690
Location: RU · ID · AM
JXQ wrote:
Holy moly. Is that this? I haven't been able to find a working download link yet but this is exciting.
Yeah, that’s it. I also can’t tell you exactly where to download it, in fact, I also never downloaded it from a public location; instead, I contacted the person nicknamed liquidshade from marzojr’s advise by e-mail and got my copy of it in the response :)
I still have it on one of my PCs, sadly I’m far away from it at the moment, but later I can share it I think.
This was my first and last atlas encode of a ring attack:
Link to video
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Joined: 6/9/2005
Posts: 171
Location: Southern California
601 rings? That's amazing. These are called atlas encodings? I really appreciate the zoomed out view to appreciate the planning that went into the route! Thanks for sharing. :)
Here's SP2. Everything after the last slide took me a while to optimize because I was barely able to beat the last moving object. LR1 only desynced to a missing lag frame. We are finally back to where we left off. I'd suggest layering sprites on top for the encode.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/433840190/Evil_3D-TheYogWog-kaan55-S3K-ST-ringattack.gmv
Now that we're finally back to where we left off I can't wait to see what your LRZ2 looks like. I remember having a lot of fun with this one.
@JXQ here are some additional comments to add onto what Evil said.
AI2
I'll probably edit an AI2 map later to show which rings we didn't get in Knuckles area and the ones that required Tails to clip into the death boundary.
HC2
1:20- It was for entertainment, but funny enough it did end up saving a frame because the hand couldn't pull Sonic to the ground when it released.
2:05- Yeah it was slower. That was the earliest I could get Tails to spawn, and it took him too long to land and get out of his hitstun animation.
IC1
2:10- There is one more detail you should know. If you kill Knuckles' boss first Sonic's boss will get deloaded.
LB2
4:05- I did find a route that allows us to do this. Problem is the game doesn't let Sonic transition to Mushroom Hill from Knuckles boss.
MH1
Yeah I'd prefer to leave out that glitch in this category for reasons Evil mentioned (Tails how could you?).
I'd love to see an atlas encode of this run. I'd be awesome to see both Sonic and Tails' movement from a larger screen.
Hello. I know you guys are currently focusing a lot on ring attacks, but I wanted to share what I came up with for Carnival Night 2 in the Sonic Any% category.
Link to video
GMV File: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/195977748/Sonic%203%20%26%20Knuckles%20CNZ2%20SubTAS%20Attempt%201.gmv (requires savestate at level select with CN1 highlighted and Sonic Alone selected because I need to carry wheel glitch from Act 1)
The glitching into the ceiling bit uses the same idea as the Tails' route, although done now with the wheel glitch gravity directly as opposed to just regular flying. Other than that, it is just abusing wheel glitch in interesting new ways all the way up to the boss as opposed to getting rid of it in favor of taking a different path. I know I used Sonic Alone for this example, but I just wanted to show an unoptimized proof of concept of Sonic or Sonic&Tails taking the ceiling strat which RTA runners have recently started using (although through a much more simpler method), but now in a TAS setting, which in this case ended up being faster than the current S3K TAS time of 0:40. I am not sure this path is known in the TAS community, but I couldn't find any mentions of it, so I'm just hoping to see if anyone can find this useful, especially for a future S3K Any% attempt. I'm especially intrigued what Sonic&Tails could do together with this method, as based on the current TAS there are a lot of ways that Tails can be used to accelerate the path Sonic takes.
Note: ignore the 1:00 time in Act 1, I just winged a quick RTA run for it
I'm not one to get concerned with projects and their progress, and I know I'm a lurker, but is this project still alive? We haven't seen any post in this forum for a bit.
I'm not one to get concerned with projects and their progress, and I know I'm a lurker, but is this project still alive? We haven't seen any post in this forum for a bit.
Yes, this project is still 100% alive, I just had to solve some irl problems but I'm free now, me and kaan are working on lava reef 2 and the rest of the levels via pms. As soon as lava reef 2 is finished I will update this topic with the new wip.
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1690
Location: RU · ID · AM
LancexExWx wrote:
I'm not one to get concerned with projects and their progress, and I know I'm a lurker, but is this project still alive? We haven't seen any post in this forum for a bit.
I guess you are new to TAS, because some projects take years to complete and this one is not a little one.
By the standards of this forum less than 2 weeks after the last post usually means that hard work is in progress right now :)
Stay patient and someday they will finish it…
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
I'm not one to get concerned with projects and their progress, and I know I'm a lurker, but is this project still alive? We haven't seen any post in this forum for a bit.
We are still working on it don't worry. Evil asked me via pm to do the main level for LRZ2 because he was preoccupied like he said above. I already have like 47 seconds of it done. Just keep in mind that it is kind of a long level (mostly because we can't skip the boss) so it will take a while.
I guess you are new to TAS, because some projects take years to complete and this one is not a little one.
I'm quite familiar actually (Not on a technical standpoint though). I was just curious about this one, because for a while it seemed like progress was going really well and then activity for this forum sort of just stopped. I was just a little suspicious is all.
I know that TASes take a lot of time. And While I haven't watched any of the WiPs (except the AI ones), just because I don't want to spoil anything for myself, I admire how much time you all have put into this project and I know it's going to be amazing.
I'm glad to know that the project is still going. Keep up the great work!
Hello, I'm back. Last time I showed a potential new route for Carnival Night 2 in Sonic's any% run. Unfortunately, due to it requiring obtaining and carrying wheel glitch through act 1, it lost a considerable amount of time when considering Act 1 and Act 2 together, thus not making it faster overall. However, I've recently came across a different method altogether thanks to an idea provided by sumerhays which even though gets wheel glitch in Act 1 (and thus loses some time compared to the current TAS), saves enough time in Act 2 to be faster overall:
Link to video
The example I show here is RTA-wise 150 frames faster than the current TAS (measured from the title cards of CN1 and IC1), and IGT-wise approximately 312 frames (approximately 0:37::30+0:30::08 = 1:07::38, compared to 0:32::28+0:40::22 = 1:12::50). Do note it is not extremely optimized, as I had spent most of my time looking for a humanly viable version of this; this just came as a sidenote. Some key places include the CN1 boss fight (which is definitely optimizable) and CN2 overall (as I have managed to obtain a high 0:29 before which can be seen here: https://youtu.be/IL_fP3KlKTk ), including the post-timer cannon portion where I didn't have Tails with me because I messed up his respawning time (it is possible to have him, as seen in that 0:29 vid). By the way, you may recognize the early portions of CN1 from the previous S3K TAS by nitsuja, Upthorn & marzojr ( http://tasvideos.org/1656M.html ), as I was too lazy to redo the super optimized version of wheel glitch (and I did not want to lose time that I already know can be saved).
The movie files can be found here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JJwB2CE6uHPkC3BRaMXiEUtiW2rssgkP/view?usp=sharing . They contain the input file and a savestate that can be loaded after the movie starts to skip to the beginning of CN1, alternatively, one can also seek to frame 24600. The reason for such a high starting point is because I created this movie directly based on the aforementioned TAS so I could keep their optimal wheel glitch setup (and I did not know how to splice movie files); I just overwrote the inputs from CN1's 0:13 IGT onwards.
Hopefully this will be useful.
9 seconds saved in Sky Sanctuary. That’s very impressive.
Paused wrote:
Those 18 months flew by huh?
Yeah. This was a very fun Experience. Thank you for letting me participate in this project Evil.
So I’m gonna be the one to tas DEZ1 which is great. Undortunatly I’m gonna be out of country for the next 3 weeks. I won’t be able to do any tasing until I get back home. I’m sorry for delaying the project like that Evil.
Yeah. The time pass very fast when someone have a lot of fun :-)
@kaan55: oh, in that case I will take a look on my own, I'm sure that your test run is posted here somewhere.
