(Link to video)

Attributes

  • Collects all items
  • Aims for lowest real time / frame count
  • Forgoes major game breaking glitches
  • Forgoes out of bounds
  • Forgoes memory corruption
  • Abuses minor glitches and exploits
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Manipulates luck

Terminology

  • Energy Tank = E-Tank
  • Super Missile = Super
  • X-Ray Scope = X-Ray
  • Speed Booster = Speed
  • Charge Beam = Charge
  • Plasma Beam = Plasma
  • Mother Brain = MB
  • Continuous Wall Jump = CWJ

Tools Used

Overview

The ultimate TAS of the 2D realm has finally crossed the finish line, incinerating Cpadolf's previous iteration into ashes. The total improvement is 23360 frames, or approximately 6 minutes and 28 seconds in real time, and 3 minutes and 22 seconds in game time. Of those 23360 frames, 4118 were from lag reduction.
With an extremely unconventional route, even more new techniques than before, tons of updated room strategies, and a healthy amount of lag reduction, this TAS aims to outdo my previous works in terms of optimization and entertainment.
A secondary encode is being provided with fixed graphics, thanks to the creation of a LUA script for Bizhawk by PJBoy that alters the VRAM. All Super Metroid TASes created with Bizhawk and Lsnes are compatible with each other.
More specifically, this LUA script automatically:
  • Centers misaligned doors (to prevent permanent graphical issues)
  • Allows graphics to scroll & update while using X-Ray
  • Prevents graphical errors that would occur if Samus moved faster than 16px per frame
  • Follows Samus while she is off-screen (doesn't work yet, but will soon)
Fortunately, VRAM doesn't impact a Super Metroid TAS's ability to sync.

Route Outline

Perhaps only somewhat surprising in the context of 100%, Kraid -> Ridley -> Phantoon -> Draygon was determined to be optimal, with a 'one-trip Norfair' being possible through the assistance of various X-Ray exploits, and Phantoon being handled before Draygon to acquire Gravity Suit, of course.
The route itself was produced in cooperation with EternisedDragon, and as the saying goes, "well begun is half done".
Thanks to moonfall, almost all of the items from Green/Pink Brinstar can be acquired in one pass - the one unfortunate exception being the E-Tank behind Charge (commonly referred to as the "water tank") as it's shielded by many layers of Speed blocks.
All other areas, such as Kraid's Lair, Norfair, Wrecked Ship, and Maridia are completed in one visit, with a brand-new exploit performed to access Maridia immediately after reentry into Red Brinstar.
After Maridia, the aforementioned water tank is collected before sweeping the rest of (blue) Brinstar and Crateria. MB is then promptly dethroned in a lag-free duel to the death.

New Techniques

Grapple Speedkeep

Normally, all dash (run speed) is lost whenever Grapple makes contact with a Grapple block or Grapple-able enemy. However, if you do so on the same frame when the knockback period ends, all dash will be maintained.
With careful maneuvering, it's also possible to land and continue forward movement with this prior dash maintained. (see Post Crocomire Farming Room)

Grapple Supersink

If Samus releases from a grapple swing in a manner that the starting vertical speed exceeds 6 pixels per frame, it becomes uncapped and is allowed to increase forever, similar to moonfall.
If this specific release is combined with a pixel-perfect soft unmorph ("slopekiller"), this speed can be stored while in a crouch pose. From there, turning with either or both angle buttons held will increase the speed further, eventually allowing Samus to sink through objects (16+ speed required). (see Bowling Alley & Aqueduct first visit)

Unused Doors

There are a few rooms in the game which contain unused doors / areas within their boundaries. The Plasma beach is one such area, where a door - which has the same ID as the bottom right door of that room - exists behind the door leading to the Plasma area, effectively serving as a shortcut.

Pausing to release inputs

When the game pauses, it considers all inputs to be released, making it possible to, for example, morph without needing to wait a frame before being able to press down a second time to morph. This was crucial in being able to properly soft morph during the Bowling Grapple supersink. (That's why there's a seemingly unnecessary pause there, but it was definitely necessary!)

Midair-stuck Moonfall

Certain conditions can make Samus seemingly stuck in midair, in one of her midair poses. One method for this is to freeze two enemies with the correct distance between each other, and then jump between them. Now, what happens if you moonfall between those two enemies? Well, it allows a massive amount of vertical speed to be built up without needing any falling distance beneath you.
This was originally going to be applied as part of the means to access Maridia through Red Brinstar, but a faster strategy was found, thus limiting application of this technique to the Green Pirates Shaft before Tourian, using both of the Beetoms.

Phantoon Double Super

If Phantoon is struck with a Super on the same frame he initiates movement after the first Missile volley, he won't enrage.
This trick saved nearly a second compared to the typical single Super fight - albeit still slower than an X-Plasma fight, but this obviously wasn't an option in this run.

Soft Crumbling

Performing a soft unmorph atop a crumble block (to maintain vertical speed) and then performing a frame-perfect morph when the block vanishes can save time in very specific situations. (see West Sand Hole & Blue Brinstar E-Tank Room)

Snailtool

Yards (snails) can consume the same blocks of sand that Shaktool plows through, so a Yard can be directed to tear through part of the sand before Shaktool is able to reach it, allowing a quicker escape.

Continuous CWJs

Normally, all dash is lost as soon as the jump button is released, but if Screw Attack or Space Jump are active, it's possible to perform multiple CWJs in a row without losing dash.

Sand moonturns

By initiating a moonfall right before entering a room filled with sand, Samus will sink at about double the speed during turnaround animations, which makes this much faster than the traditional morph-unmorph-ing.
And finally, all techniques and glitches applied in the Any% TAS from 2018 were also applied in this project. You can read more about those on the submission page of that run.

Improvement Breakdown

Yes, very much improved...
...placeholder

Special Thanks

  • EternisedDragon a.k.a. Aran;Jaeger for helping create this route and for reviewing my progress
  • Cakemaphoneige a.k.a. Cake5 for finding a 3 frame improvement to MB's head manipulation during the stand-up glitch
  • PJBoy for his amazing LUA script
  • Dan for various disassemblies
  • Cpadolf's previous TAS for comparison material
  • Overfiend for being my editor

feos: This run as it is is somewhat easy to judge, it's just an improvement to the existing full completion branch, coming from better routing, optimization, and new tricks. I watched them side by side to confirm this.
However, the thread proves that we're having quite some questions to be answered about Super Metroid TASing and branching in general. Those questions started appearing a few years ago, and since there was no answer that'd satisfy the whole community and get its approval, I'm going to generate it now.

Out of bounds

I watched all the recent "game end glitch" movies using this script that I found on google and tweaked a little bit. Here's what it looks like.
From reading some resources I can conclude that Super Metroid's out-of-bounds area is special if we compare this game to, say, Mega Man, which was brought in the thread a few times. In MM the map is continuous, even if only on the index level, so by leaving one room, you enter another, even if they are not meant to be near each other level design wise. In Super Metroid, a room is what is currently loaded into memory, and leaving its layout bounds brings you nowhere else than garbage area. What this garbage area will be is determined by what layout was previously loaded, and whether or not the current layout loops in memory. So you either enter a copy of the current room, or utter garbage area with garbage blocks, which in turn have a variety of garbage properties, including calling non-existent routines. What routine a block calls upon touching can be manipulated to trigger arbitrary code execution, this is what's happening in the most recent "game end glitch" branches.
Just like with the current Super Metroid trunk (or labelless branch, or no-major-glitches category), some people feel disappointed by what looks like being out of bounds in this submission. Technically the room bounds are never escaped in either movie. What looks like OOB is just scrolling glitches where the camera isn't able to follow the character's movement due to bugs. As a result, it's impossible to know where the character is actually going during such segments, and that damages entertainment.
It's worth mentioning that it would technically be allowed to visit out-of-bounds areas in all SM branches as long as that's not used to fill completion counter via memory corruption and ACE techniques. It just seems to be the most entertaining solution for the NMG branch to avoid OOB along with ACE and memory corruption. Since that branch is unvaultable, we want it to be as entertaining as possible, and the current rule set used in it makes it reasonably entertaining. For full completion, it doesn't even have to be entertaining at all to be published, but that could downgrade the movie to Vault, and the audience doesn't want that. So it's a common agreement that SM 100% should avoid all the techniques SM NMG avoids, while also collecting all items as implied.

Entertainment

Despite of having quite some complaints in the discussion thread for [3653] SNES Super Metroid by Sniq in 35:58.31, that movie's rating is overwhelmingly high. I don't have an explanation for that other than people not caring about ratings once they have expressed their position in the thread. Despite of that rating, all the same complaints are now back and vocal in this submission's discussion.
I could of course rely on the NMG branch ratings and ignore the complaints, just accepting this branch to Stars the same way that other movie was accepted. But firstly, I'd prefer to make sure the audience generally doesn't mind starring this run; secondly, there should be some agreement on how to manage glitch avoidance within SM branches; and thirdly, I can expect some more negative ratings this time, since this subject is seemingly getting more annoying to some viewers.
As I said, I watched this movie side-by-side with cpadolf's work. I tried to match all the similar areas and watch them so that the changes are the most apparent to me. After having read the thread, I expected the second half of the movie to be a complete mess where you can see neither Samus nor the level layout at all. And this expectation was completely false. Aside from very few occasions, it was clear or at least easily deducible where Samus has navigated even during X-Ray dashes. What I didn't like at all though was segments where you can't possibly understand where Samus is at the moment. This is closely tied with scrolling glitches, and it does indeed visually look like out-of-bounds navigation.

No X glitch

The situation around the previous two chapters is that people are confusing major glitches with major skip glitches. Whenever something looks like heavy corruption, it's considered a major glitch, even though we only count glitches as major skip ones if they skip major parts of the movie.
But even though we mostly separate runs with and without major skip glitches, we also can separate runs with and without heavy glitches just fine. Time difference doesn't have to be all that big, but the way gameplay looks without such a glitch is significantly different. Avoiding this glitch also results in a more human-like (although still super-human) look: the action becomes more comprehensible, and as a result, it's far easier to relate to and enjoy. Note how glitch avoidance is called out in the "no X glitch" manner: this is because it avoids glitches that are common among other branches of that game.
Okay so how do we apply this to Super Metroid branches?
It's been said a number of times that having alternative branches for each of the current ones, separated by glitch usage, doesn't make too much sense because of huge content overlap between all the potential resulting branches. For games that have two or three branches, having this difference is mostly fine. It branches either as "major skip glitch" / "no major skip glitch" / "no heavy glitches at all", or as "heavy glitches" / "no heavy glitches". But Super Metroid always has at least 4 branches published together, so any new branch is going to resemble others, and that's especially true if there are 4 fundamental, primary routes, and on top of that there are versions of them without heavy glitches. Adding a "no heavy glitches" alternative to any of the current branches is unfeasible.
Then, banning heavy glitches right in NMG or 100% makes those branches too arbitrary. We don't have enough support in the community for such a step. In addition to that, comparing speed improvements would become a hell, because the line tends to be getting thiner and thiner between visually appealing and distracting heavy glitches, all of which save time, but none of which results in a major skip. So it won't be possible to properly account for this limitation in obsoletion chains.
There's also a point to be made about really insignificant time difference in either scenario.
Anyway, camhack encodes are possible that fix the scrolling glitches. Having low-glitch branches that look exactly like alternative encodes of high-glitch branches is silly.
So as I said in this submission's thread, one's best bet is avoiding all the "bad looking" glitches in a fundamentally unvaultable branch. To be specific, the only current unvaultable branch that would suit for this limitation seems to be "low%".

Attempt to define this esoteric goal

It's worth noting that the ammo underflow glitch that was used in the previous NMG branch, can count as memory corruption. You partially change the logic controlling some address, and what would properly work in proper situation A and in proper situation B, doesn't work right in improper A-B hybrid. resulting on writing to unintended logical address those 2 situations share. But even then, whether we want to define this strictly as memory corruption or not is not that clear: all the X-Ray glitches used in this run and in NMG could arguably fit the same definition, yet they aren't avoided alongside other memory corruption techniques.
Regardless, the undeflow glitch is banned in low%, and I fully agree with this decision, because it avoids route and execution trivialization, resulting in a more entertaining movie. But how do we account for other recently applied techniques that damage entertainment?
In addition to banning the underflow glitch, I suggest banning all the scrolling glitches in the low% category. Sure, in its current form it probably doesn't have them anyway. But after all, it's the only category among the current ones where this approach is still possible (and desired).

Conclusion

Every decision made in this movie makes the most sense, and represents the most solid of the available options. Any tweak theorized by the audience would make it worse, either in terms of entertainment (the majority still likes this run), or in terms of definition solidity.
Even though this movie looks stylistically identical to the NMG branch that is starred and has great ratings, I'd like to see this run's ratings. After all, this movie inherits all the problematic aspects of [3653] SNES Super Metroid by Sniq in 35:58.31. Then there's arguably less difference between this and the current NMG than there was between the previous 100% and previous NMGs. As a result, I'd prefer having a Star related discussion separated, and well after this run gets published and gains enough post-publication feedback.
Otherwise, accepting to obsolete [2436] SNES Super Metroid "100%" by Cpadolf in 1:08:15.74 while going to Moons for now.
Spikestuff: PUB-LISH-ING

P.JBoy
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Editor
Joined: 3/25/2006
Posts: 850
Location: stuck in Pandora's box HELLPP!!!
Spikestuff wrote:
All I know is that I'll be publishing this, much like I've done in the past for SM. Sniq just get in contact with me about when and what is required for the fixed graphics.
The lua script for fixed graphics is here, the script is for BizHawk, so you'll need the equivalent BK2 file. The changes are purely visual and works in real-time, no set-up required. I have a view on letting the camera follow Samus off-screen, I just need to work out some problems involving sprite drawing (or lack thereof), but I wouldn't delay publication to wait for that feature.
Joined: 6/4/2009
Posts: 893
Aran Jaeger wrote:
They are considered to be inbounds, and for the matter of inbounds or out of bounds,
if those are the rules then no problem for me there.
Memory
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Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1762
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DrD2k9 wrote:
Regarding duping items: Wasn't it discussed somewhere else that duping doesn't qualify as 100% even if it causes a game to show 100% in the credits? The argument being that the all items had to be collected from their proper locations for a 100% run instead of simply being duped into existence. My memory doesn't work near as well as some others here; but IIRC, it was in the discussion of one of the Zelda games.
That is of course correct but habreno also indicated that his question was in fact rhetorical so there's no point responding to it.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Joined: 11/18/2011
Posts: 245
Location: Morocco
P.JBoy wrote:
The lua script for fixed graphics is here, the script is for BizHawk, so you'll need the equivalent BK2 file. The changes are purely visual and works in real-time, no set-up required.
Thanks for the BK2 file as well as the lua for fixing graphics.
EZGames69 wrote:
Why do we need to convert it to bizhawk?
It is because I'd like to make a cutsceneless encode for my and others viewing pleasure. I failed to make a lua script for it in lsnes, but I can do it in BizHawk. I usually watch SM TASes without cutscenes. I enjoy them more that way, lol.
I still learn more about English. https://www.youtube.com/user/McBobX100
I wrote:
Working is the best way to achieve goals in speedruning. Hardworking is a pain.
Experienced player (542)
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Posts: 245
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Encode without cutscenes if anyone interested (Quick encode): I can enjoy it more now, lol. Link to video Also, here is the avs script used for it (import it in the main Avisynth script): https://pastebin.com/gr5Reu4V And here is the lua script that generated it (works on BizHawk): https://pastebin.com/cdnLSUBS
I still learn more about English. https://www.youtube.com/user/McBobX100
I wrote:
Working is the best way to achieve goals in speedruning. Hardworking is a pain.
CoolHandMike
He/Him
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Posts: 562
McBobX wrote:
Encode without cutscenes if anyone interested (Quick encode):
This is not better. This makes areas near doors into choppy messes that are extremely hard to follow.
discord: CoolHandMike#0352
Experienced player (542)
Joined: 11/18/2011
Posts: 245
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theripper999 wrote:
This is not better. This makes areas near doors into choppy messes that are extremely hard to follow.
Probably you found it that bad. I still like it though, lol. It is all about the graphics that were messed up. If I can fix them with an additional lua script (potentially with P.JBoy's), I may make a new encode with fixed graphics.
I still learn more about English. https://www.youtube.com/user/McBobX100
I wrote:
Working is the best way to achieve goals in speedruning. Hardworking is a pain.
Joined: 8/5/2015
Posts: 29
Thank you for the encode, McBobX. I was hoping someone would make one like that, but I wasn't sure who.
JXQ
Experienced player (749)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
My personal S-Rank encode would have fixed graphics and cutscenes removed, but with some additional tweaks to help with some of the things that happen when you yank out cutscenes:
  • Sound fixed - export the result without music, and manually mix it back in so it doesn't restart constantly and skip portions during door transitions. (I manually did this for my very old 100% TAS. I also cleaned up some grating sounds manually, like reducing the volume of some of the annoying or persistent sound effects. Unfortunately the video quality is poor due to my lack of understanding at the time, but it does display the potential nicely.)
  • Some small amount of atlas-like encoding: Not zoomed-out at all, but mostly I'm thinking that when Samus is near a door she's about to enter, the camera keeps her in the middle of the screen, showing the room she's about to enter in a pre-loaded state, to reduce the jarring effect of Samus quickly going from one edge of the screen to the other when entering a door without the door transition cutscene.
I assumed this would all be unrealistic, but maybe not with the rate these enhanced encodes are being cranked out? (It also would be quite removed from the actual game output at that point, but it turns out that doesn't bother me.)
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
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Aran Jaeger wrote:
SUPERMETROIDFTP made an excellent Lua script video for the 100% TAS that can help understanding what actually happens in some situations where this is not visible:
Would it be possible to adapt this script to show the actual game and characters instead of white sprites and hitboxes? It would be cool to see the whole run from a "further back" point of view and it shows what's happening during the offscreen action.
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Just chiming in, I only actually watched the "broken" version and I enjoyed it. Maybe it's because I know this game's rooms in and out, or that I'm used to watching visually broken TASes, but I really don't get what was hard to follow at all. If anything I find Metroid II (a game I know just about as well as SM) "select glitch" TASes wwaaaay harder to follow by comparison. If it was too much for some people, I get it, but personally I had zero issue with it. Then again I also made that disasterous X-Men TAS so you should probably ignore me.
Somewhat damaged.
Aran_Jaeger
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Reeve, it looks like SUPERMETROIDFTP is working on it: Link to video
collect, analyse, categorise. "Mathematics - When tool-assisted skills are just not enough" ;) Don't want to be taking up so much space adding to posts, but might be worth mentioning and letting others know for what games 1) already some TAS work has been done (ordered in decreasing amount, relative to a game completion) by me and 2) I am (in decreasing order) planning/considering to TAS them. Those would majorly be SNES games (if not, it will be indicated in the list) I'm focusing on. 1) Spanky's Quest; On the Ball/Cameltry; Musya; Super R-Type; Plok; Sutte Hakkun; The Wizard of Oz; Battletoads Doubledragon; Super Ghouls'n Ghosts; Firepower 2000; Brain Lord; Warios Woods; Super Turrican; The Humans. 2) Secret Command (SEGA); Star Force (NES); Hyperzone; Aladdin; R-Type 3; Power Blade 2 (NES); Super Turrican 2; First Samurai. (last updated: 18.03.2018)
Taralyn
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Nothing less than a yes vote for taking the best game on the SNES, doing sub-hour (by RTA timing) hundo, and making it look like the (emulated) SNES exploded all over my screen by the end. Simply magnificent, and the routing is unreal.
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Aran Jaeger wrote:
Since I've in the past been told to be hard to understand at times, I introduced bold and italic writing styles (aswell as an attempt to structure my post further) this time for the purpose of making my points more clear to the reader.
This is the reason why I was able to read the whole post, and I have a lot to respond with. It helped immensely! I have one more suggested, and it's no less important. Split your sentences as often as possible. You will know it can't be split further if it just stops being proper English. But as long as it retains the meaning, keep splitting. No one on earth will complain if you write in short sentences all the same thoughts you're writing in huge ones. But otherwise, it's a big problem. Not a lot of people can keep in mind ideas that keep arriving indefinitely with no end to expect, within a single sentence. Most just give up if the sentence is too long. Note that you lose literally nothing, you can freely address as many different subjects as you want. But now with a bonus that others can follow if you are interested. Now let's focus on your points.
Aran Jaeger wrote:
On the Starman Guidelines page ( http://tasvideos.org/StarmanGuidelines.html ), under the therein so-called Qualities of starred movies section, regarding the topic of entertainment listed in there, one can find the following 2 factors specifically for entertainment, no less nor else mentioned: [...] Hence my logical take from this is: If suggestions from this page meant for starred movies display any guidelines on how a movie preferably should be like, and if one strives to abide by this for decisions made for a TAS, then as long as these 2 listed factors do not or do estimatedly not sufficiently much contradict other factors listed in there, which expliclty would be [...] (aswell as potentially further unmentioned factors), the act of choosing to incorporate Superjumps as extension of the set of glitches meant for turning the game into something never before see, aswell as for the purpose of enhancing the fast pace is under the above assumption of lack of intrinsic contradiction to be seen as strictly positive bonus on the side of factors relevant for entertainment of a movie, provided one goes by these and only these guidelines for this aspect. Furthermore, alongside the entertainment aspect, the technical aspect, and the aspect of looking too impossible to be real, one can also find the following point in the section Qualities of starred movies (which, mind you, is also marked as bold and as consequence makes it seem to be at least on a comparable level of importance as the previously mentioned aspects): [...] And regarding this, it was and is our viewpoint that the introduction of Superjumps and other (frequently X-Ray related) exploits would greatly benefit towards the innovativity aswell as unexpectedness of various contents of the 100% movie, and at very least more so than any alternative in which some or all of these exploits would have been foregone, i.e. we thought the movie then would contain more expected and considered/anticipated choices for room traversal & routes and would contain less innovative material. For example without G-mode, one would have had (at least up to current knowledge) to enter Lower Norfair at the usual entrance and the route would almost certainly lead out of Lower Norfair at its usual exit, and Maridia would have had to be entered from a more common access point, too; and a significant amount of room movement likely would have been much closer to long known approaches for these rooms from past movies. Therefore I'm highly confident in our choice in this matter having been the most conform to the above guidelines among the known options we had, and I must say I would be surprised if the general TASing audience would have a contrary view on this matter. Facit: This circumstance is either rather to be seen as "user error'' than as TAS decision error, or if anything, those that complain about it should talk to TASVideos' staff about the guidelines rather than arguing over 1 specific TAS case in which those guidelines' consequences are apparent and in use!
The primary trait of entertainment is subjectivity. Of course there can be guidelines that reveal what our audience happens to like in general. There can be examples of what we want to see in movies, what entertains us as history has shown. But on the other hand, there are always people who just happen to dislike whatever the majority of the audience likes. For example, I hate Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, and a bunch of other really popular franchises. My taste here contradicts one of the majority of our audience. There are franchises I like (Battletoads) and also ones I'm indifferent about (Sonic). Other people feel in infinity of different ways. Even things Starman Guidelines try to encourage won't make some people happy if it's used in a game they don't like, or in a movie branch they don't like. The goal of our site is hearing people out when it's possible to incorporate their opinions into global policies. So the policy here is that if there are problems with a movie's entertainment value, it won't be starred. There's no automation here, no formal cutoff to bypass. Every star is given based on both general feedback and actual qualities of the movie. Several people complaining about new tricks involved that damage entertainment for them, will be heard out, and I'll look closely into this movie to decide whether it's still worth a star.
Aran Jaeger wrote:
I'm not sure why you are repeatedly calling the SM 100% branch a ''legacy category'', moozooh, when it according to the Movie Class Guidelines ( http://tasvideos.org/MovieClassGuidelines.html ) is just a normal and frequently occuring real-time optimized 100% completion category movie with an attributed set of so-called time-saving techniques usage/avoidance consisting of heavy luck manipulation, heavy glitch abuse, takes damage to save time, and foregoes major skip glitch, turning this movie into a that way classified movie according to TASVideos' definitions; instead of e.g. being chosen to be the same except substituting the attributed heavy glitch abuse with foregoes time-saving glitches, and if you would like to see an optimized real-time optimized 100% completion category movie with heavy luck manipulation, foregoes time-saving glitches, takes damage to save time, and foregoes major skip glitch attributed to it, then I don't know if or when such a movie might be made, nor to what extent the foregoing of certain glitches would be applied in it, but I'd estimate that a future in which one would go this path, there likely would a lot of debating occur when TASes start beating each other by loosening up the restrictions that correspond to the foregoing of time-saving glitches, and might even end up running back to the current situation eventually at which we are now.
This is an important remark. On one hand, indeed we could prefer avoiding some heavily distracting glitch for some category that's overly glitched, to allow more people appreciate the outcome. Lots of people enjoy movies with speed/entertainment trade-offs that forgo glitches that got old. But on the other hand, for a highly competitive category that we even accept to Vault if we have to (since we care about legitimate speed records), there should be solid rules for the most productive competition. It becomes really hard to assess improvements if they are constantly being compromised in order to make the result a bit more appealing. Avoiding one single instance of some really heavy glitch is easy to handle. Avoiding a hundred of instances of minor glitches would make it impossible to meaningfully compare anything to anything else in terms of optimality. Note that we shouldn't think of it as the only glitch that makes it bad now. In the future there will definitely be glitches that will make it even worse! Such things tend to get more and more complicated over time, because there's no limit to creativity. The only solution really is making a movie that avoids some of these glitches as a part of another category entirely. For any unvaultable goal (anything other than any% and 100%), it makes sense to avoid as many glitches as one pleases, as long as the audience happens to get and like the result.
Aran Jaeger wrote:
Regarding the major skip glitch definition, [...] , according to Sniq, without the Superjumps, the TAS would finish at a time around 1:04 or 1:05, but would still beat the previous 100% TAS. Most of the time means at least half of the time and at most at all times, and it refers to either the new movie or to the previous movie that it is compared to. And it makes little sense to measure the amount of time that a new TAS spends in sections that it skips due to the nature of a skip spending little to no time in those sections, whereas measuring in the previous TAS how much time it spends in skipped sections does make more sense. So if one qualifies superjumping through a room as ''skipping part, or let's say even all of the game (for the section affected by a Superjump)'', then in this context, one is meant to take a current fastest movie and check for all time periods in there that correspond to (with Superjumps) skipped sections in the new TAS and then add up those time periods from the previous TAS and compare this accumulated time that corresponds to skipped sections with the previous TAS's total time to see if it is at least 1/2 of it, is how I understand this definition. Now, half of Cpadolf's TAS in 1:08:15.74 would be about 34:07 which according to Sniq's estimate on time saved due to Superjumps (of which there are in total 23 in use, by the way) would be a large multiple of about 8.5 to 11 times the actual amount of time (namely 3 to 4 minutes, going by 1:08 - 1:05 = 3 min, and 1:08 - 1:04 = 4 min) that is skipped from the previous TAS (since 8.5*4=34, and 11*3=33). So maybe it is just the fascination coming with the Superjumps, aswell to parts the difficulty of estimating how much of a difference they actually make together, that is the source of the resulting big discrepancy between the perceived influence and the actual influence, and I doubt a further 100% TAS using Superjumps could apply them in about 10 times larger magnitude of effect to get closer to this borderline set by the definition of major skip glitch.
Back when we introduced this movie class, we had these figures to incorporate into its meaning: SDA's notion of "major skips", our notion "game breaking glitches", and the amount of time that those categories use to save compared to the fastest movie without that technique. The latter introduced one Masterjun - one order of magnitude cut from the previous movie time. Jokes aside, it was clear that we needed to address that the glitch is major and that it skips a lot. So the term is "major skip glitch", and as you can see, after all it doesn't have to corrupt too much - it just has to be an abused bug, and to result in a major skip. How much it corrupts is subjective, how much that damages entertainment is subjective. But when majority of the old route is skipped by a single glitch, it's clearly a major skip glitch. And most of the time it's published as a separate branch. That way with SM we have any% that uses the major skip glitch, and the branchless movie that avoids it, feeling closer to traditional idea of any%. The time difference between them is major, the gameplay difference is major, and the latter is very entertaining, so we can have both published. With a 100% movie that uses glitches corrupting graphics, we can't also have a 100% branch that doesn't. They would be too similar in too many ways. But as I said, nothing prevents avoiding those glitches in unvaultable branches. So everyone can have something that pleases them the most. Unfortunately, it's impossible to constantly remain entertaining for everyone if the knowledge base on a game is quickly evolving.
Aran Jaeger wrote:
Habreno wrote:
And if this isn't supposed to be NMG, then why not use spacetime + duping expansions + escape warp to make it faster? (for the record, that is a rhetorical question, since I know this is NMG)
I think I understand what you mean, and I think the short answer to this would be: Because the addition/incorporation of spacetime + duping expansions + escape warp would satisfy the criteria stated in the Movie Class Guidelines for the definition of major skip glitch, namely it would satisfy and fall under the following:
Movie Class Guidelines wrote:
Major skip glitch Such movies have a glitch (or a combination of glitches) that allows to skip major portions of the game without satisfying the in-game requirements. Most of the time more than half of the game is skipped, compared to the fastest movie that avoids this technique. Glitches involved are also quite elaborate and often include memory corruption.
It would circumvent (by repeated, quick item-duping and collecting) the (under usual circumstances existing) in-game requirement of travelling to every individual item pick-up (in order to also collect all individual 100 items, including ''100%'' being shown at the end, as opposed to only achieving the latter), and likely would most of the time skip more than half of the game, compared to the fastest movie that avoids this technique. And as consequence of this, ''major skip glitch'' would be attributed to it, and then from the prevailing branch diversity perspective, in which (as far as I know) minimal overlap/similarity between movies for different branches but of the same game is wished, it probably would come quite close to the ACE TAS (by effectively being the same, except adding a long loop of item acquisition to it in the middle), which could cause a branch overlap conflict there.
We have a rule that resolves exactly this problem.
Full completion rules wrote:
Full completion criteria must be reached through in-game actions only.
  • Arbitrary code execution (ACE) is not allowed for any full-completion category for the Vault. Arbitrary code execution of ROM data, and memory corruption tricks to write to arbitrary memory are also not allowed.
  • If a game has a progress counter, it must be filled by actions that increment the counter in gameplay. Modifying the progress counter through ACE or memory corruption is not allowed.
  • If full completion is counted by obtaining a set of items, these items must be collected through in-game methods. Using memory corruption to place items into an inventory is not counted towards full completion.
  • If full completion is counted by fulfilling a set of flags, these flags must be set through in-game mechanisms. Using memory corruption to set completion state flags is not allowed.
  • If a progress counter is filled by collecting a set of items or fulfilling a set of flags, all individual components of this set must be collected or fulfilled. Collecting or fulfilling the same component multiple times to inflate the progress counter is not counted towards full completion.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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With a 100% movie that uses glitches corrupting graphics, we can't also have a 100% branch that doesn't. They would be too similar in too many ways. But as I said, nothing prevents avoiding those glitches in unvaultable branches. So everyone can have something that pleases them the most. Unfortunately, it's impossible to constantly remain entertaining for everyone if the knowledge base on a game is quickly evolving.
On this subject, wouldn't the vaultable 100% run of SM probably use space-time beam or some other major skip glitch not used here?
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Aran Jaeger wrote:
Reeve, it looks like SUPERMETROIDFTP is working on it
Damn! That will be really cool!
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Chanoyu wrote:
On this subject, wouldn't the vaultable 100% run of SM probably use space-time beam or some other major skip glitch not used here?
It's possible to have a full completion movie with major skip glitch, but it risks ending up in Vault while also obsoleting the previous full completion movie. I don't think a lot of people want that fate for SM.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Thanks feos. It's a fate I wouldn't wish on Super Metroid either, but I think it's important to keep in mind that forgoing major skip glitches in favour of entertainment is not that different from forgoing certain less major skip glitches in favour of entertainment.
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On the topic of graphical disruption and how much of that occurs overall in currently starred movies ( http://tasvideos.org/Movies-Stars.html ), I thought it'd be a good idea to get a better overview, so I could have a better orientation on how the 100% SM TAS compares in that regard to other movies. Generally saying, according to what I could find (by checking out a few timestamps in every movie's youtube video alongside slowly going over the smaller screenshots that pop up on the bottom timeline of the videos for later parts that are loaded) only a few (around 10%, i.e. 11 movies) of the currently 110 starred movies seem to have graphical disruptions that I'd deem to be either close/similar to or weaker forms of disruptions compared to where I'd see the 100% SM TAS being placed (if there were something like a scale for different degrees of graphical disruption): - - - Cases of fast screen scrolling that can make it hard to follow a player's movement: Genesis Sonic the Hedgehog 2 by Zurggriff & Aglar in 17:40.08 : https://youtu.be/w4WwrkPJw74?t=284 (various walls scroll through the screen for a rather short amount of time, and technically, the graphics are intact and show up the way they likely are supposed to) SNES Biker Mice from Mars "final round" by Baxter in 05:12.62 : https://youtu.be/npVmTHhw9_M?t=215 (rapid scrolling of the track towards various directions over the screen for most of the time during all tracks, but again, the graphics are intact and show up the way they likely are supposed to) - - - Case(s) of possibly seizure-inducing backgrounds: SNES EarthBound by chatterbox in 1:09:47.67 : https://youtu.be/HXT3pNbC31c?t=3276 (bright background ''noise''/patterns occuring for about 50 seconds that one could call either fascinating or obnoxious, I guess, although strange backgrounds seem to be a more general theme in the game that occur in weaker forms about 2 times before this point already, and it is an intended part of the game's design) - - - Cases of glitched object/enemy sprites/animations: The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening "Playaround" TAS in 40:22.76 by Bobmario511 : https://youtu.be/-CtmgUHDdYI?t=1325 (effects last for about a minute, or occur for about that time around the timestamp, but are rather visual ''errors'' that are localized in small spaces for most of the time rather than being spread all over the screen, but then again it is happening within the context of a playaround TAS to begin with) SNES Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 "playaround" by SDR, TheVLACKDEMONN2294, Dark N[...] in 30:28.38 : https://youtu.be/ISAjRJuLvEg?t=1289 (strange graphical effects appear at many points in the movie, with just an example being pointed out with the timestamp, but overall don't seem to be present for the majority of the time and don't normally affect the most of the screen either, and it is a playaround TAS) Arcade Marvel vs. Capcom by SDR in 25:37.7 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0hd51p-fdc (often times rather dominant sprite effects/animations covering parts of the screen during many fights, but then again, it is part of the game's art-style, but I'm just mentioning/listing it here because it did at least seem to be comparable in the general context, and I wouldn't think of it being as distractive as most other listed cases) Windows Hyper Princess Pitch "Reallyjoel's Mom difficulty, best ending" by Ts[...] in 15:40.48 : https://youtu.be/kLoA8vYtIT0?t=96 (again, not actually glitched graphics, but comparable in the sense that a lot of sprites simultaneously move chaotically on the screen during multiple phases in the TAS, causing somewhat of a mess at times) - - - Cases of graphical disruptions spread over the screen: NES Mega Man by Shinryuu & FinalFighter in 12:23.34 : https://youtu.be/WBxH_VmM51E?t=707 (effects last throughout the credits, start appearing at some point in an earlier stage, and seem to occur sporadically in later stages, but overall seem to come close to what happens in the SM 100% TAS in effect, but not necessarily duration) NES Super Mario Bros. 3 "arbitrary code execution" by Lord Tom in 08:16.23 : https://youtu.be/UrIcz8iGJ14?t=387 (a few smaller graphical glitches early on, in the middle a few changes of the drawn dinosaur's look, and later on a few short situations in which the screen gets filled with strange tile clusters, but overall it seems rather minor, and it is an ACE TAS anyway) SNES Super Metroid by Sniq in 35:58.31 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT1GN_DiUfA (as one could expect, naturally very similar to the SM 100% TAS, starting at around 22:33 and affecting the screen in most cases just slightly, with few exceptions like exiting Maridia but especially the longer Mother Brain fight where the disruption is much more present on the screen) - - - And last of all though, case(s) of sprite/animation after-effects occuring (which though apparently are not the game's but the compression's fault): Gradius by adelikat in 10:52 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hETRzNzpFAI&feature=youtu.be&t=465 (''visual/literal white noise'' occurs throughout the entire video, but with variations in its intensity) This last case though makes me slightly doubtful that TASVideos actually cares that much about graphical corruptions in their videos, considering (i) for how long this video has existed now (apparently it was out in 2010) with no alternative (or updated) youtube video existing that would be linked from the Movie Stars page, and (ii) how popular this video and how well-known (in comparison to general other TASes) the TAS is, in light of or contrast to the fact that it is still in this shape (and is at least in this way listed among other TASes from the Movie Stars page), even though there has been a mention of this potential issue in the videos' comments: However, (i) there also exists an archive.org video version (alongside the youtube video) which seems to be entirely fine, and (ii) there are likely (metaphorical) tons of youtube comments popping up for many TASes, so it can be understandable if not each comment can get attention, and (iii) the particular comment seems to be relatively recent/new (with little to no other comments existing that state similar issues), and a fix might either be already on the way or in some ''TODO list'' or might just have low priority compared to other tasks overall that might need to be managed, and (iv) the standards on graphical disruptions might also have been different much longer ago compared to now, and (v) it is 1 among very many TAS videos (and exceptions may confirm the general rule). But I'm not sure how many of the video's downvotes could be retraced to be due to those decrompression artifacts (if that is what they are); but again, if that was part of the reason, then a similar situation could be anticipated for the 100% SM TAS, provided it does get accepted. But in this case there'd at least be an alternative video (or even multiple) on youtube. - - - Facit: Having seen these cases, I'd place the SM 100% TAS rather among the more heavily graphically disrupted 2 to 4 movies, so I'd agree in thinking that it would then be already in a rather small group of movies where these kinds of graphical effects are present, and I think it could be in a new ''precedent'' situation where the previous limit of starred movies' graphical disruptions has been exceeded to an extent (once again), and the question arises whether it is too much or if it is still okay.
collect, analyse, categorise. "Mathematics - When tool-assisted skills are just not enough" ;) Don't want to be taking up so much space adding to posts, but might be worth mentioning and letting others know for what games 1) already some TAS work has been done (ordered in decreasing amount, relative to a game completion) by me and 2) I am (in decreasing order) planning/considering to TAS them. Those would majorly be SNES games (if not, it will be indicated in the list) I'm focusing on. 1) Spanky's Quest; On the Ball/Cameltry; Musya; Super R-Type; Plok; Sutte Hakkun; The Wizard of Oz; Battletoads Doubledragon; Super Ghouls'n Ghosts; Firepower 2000; Brain Lord; Warios Woods; Super Turrican; The Humans. 2) Secret Command (SEGA); Star Force (NES); Hyperzone; Aladdin; R-Type 3; Power Blade 2 (NES); Super Turrican 2; First Samurai. (last updated: 18.03.2018)
GaRan
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Spectacular!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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This last case though makes me slightly doubtful that TASVideos actually cares that much about graphical corruptions in their videos, considering (i) for how long this video has existed now (apparently it was out in 2010) with no alternative (or updated) youtube video existing that would be linked from the Movie Stars page, and (ii) how popular this video and how well-known (in comparison to general other TASes) the TAS is, in light of or contrast to the fact that it is still in this shape (and is at least in this way listed among other TASes from the Movie Stars page), even though there has been a mention of this potential issue in the videos' comments:
I do not it’s because TASVideos doesn’t care. I for one didn’t know that gradius had this issue, and it seems to have a simmilar issue to what was reported here: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=477364#477364 The fact that there is a thread where you can report issues with certain encodes is proof enough that TASVideos does care, but issues can only be fixed if they’re actually reported.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
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Gradius is being worked on as we speak.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Aran Jaeger wrote:
This last case though makes me slightly doubtful that TASVideos actually cares that much about graphical corruptions in their videos, considering
I do not want to talk about the pain and misery that was YouTube breaking 3D encodes and YouTube deleting 3D encodes but they're not actually deleted and Youtube's stating they are and having to learn and create a visual appeasing 3D encodes for VBoy. Those were fun times. I'm pretty much stating that some of us on staff actually give a rats ass. I'm personally spearheading a few encoding projects for example; DSRedux (32.6%), PSXjinRedux (23%) and Gensdux (Who wants to make a 20x16 table containing 340 gens movies%?). One of those 3 is a pain in the ass... and the other one is dealing with positioning DS placements. The main goal of the Redux project I personally have going is to actually have all old TASes to be presentable on TVC at 4k60fps+ that's including those already existing at 1440p/1080p60fps on TVC. And as a little note. Encoding takes time. If you want to reference a certain incident from last year. That was a time period of around 2 to 3 weeks (probably more I forget) to get out 50+ reencodes for very basic encodes. And to do a little spoiler. There are some TASes that cannot be reencoded due to no sync information or provided files gone in the wind. This hits some Arcade/FBA TASes such as infamously: [1342] Arcade X-Men vs. Street Fighter "playaround" by SDR in 11:38.38 & [1600] Arcade Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles "4 players" by DarkKobold in 12:14.85 Also melted encodes are relatively newish. If you want to see something scarier than melted encodes and unsyncable TASes - Click Here - to claim your prize in curiosity.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. These colours are pretty neato, and also these.
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Reeve wrote:
Would it be possible to adapt this script to show the actual game and characters instead of white sprites and hitboxes?
The foundation was done. Link to video Other than that, I am optimizing the ghost play lua(original source) of snes9x and Lsnes on Lsnes. Always snes9x-v1.43 ghost dump is running correctly on Lsnes. In addition to that, I will combine the further improved samus poses lua. However, optimization takes a lot of time again. Samus poses was completed in about 200 hours in a total of 16 days, but samus poses of ghost play lua is not completed yet. I hope you will be able to wait slowly. Finally, the combined encoding of multiple videos also takes time. I will complete it in summer. :)
Reeve wrote:
It would be cool to see the whole run from a "further back" point of view and it shows what's happening during the offscreen action.
It is possible to reproduce the above drawing with a little code change. The tile size is 8x8. However, the positions of the indivisible trigonometric slope-block and similar chip data coordinates no longer match in one pixel unit. Well, I think that it is a defect of the level that you do not mind as a video browsing. It can not be used as a TAS function. [Operation check only] *I can not secure time to finish this lua.
I start a text using a translation tool. I peruse and understand movie for illiteracy except Japanese.
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SUPERMETROIDFTP wrote:
Reeve wrote:
It would be cool to see the whole run from a "further back" point of view and it shows what's happening during the offscreen action.
It is possible to reproduce the above drawing with a little code change. The tile size is 8x8. However, the positions of the indivisible trigonometric slope-block and similar chip data coordinates no longer match in one pixel unit. Well, I think that it is a defect of the level that you do not mind as a video browsing. It can not be used as a TAS function. [Operation check only] *I can not secure time to finish this lua.
Instead of making the objects and the map even smaller, you could pad the lsnes framebuffer to whatever size you want (even 4K), and use all that area to draw lua overlay, be it pixel-to-pixel scale, or something higher. It's just important to keep in mind that lsnes has separate callbacks for on-screen drawing (on_paint) and for video drawing (on_video), and I think ability to pad the either of these framebuffers is also exposed to lua (gui.set_video_scale() I guess?). Looking at your picture, you already know all this, right? :D
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.