In the event that two or more runs tie for first place based on time, the combined final score (P1 score + P2 score on the trophy screen) will be used as a secondary determinant of rank; the higher score will have a higher ranking.
I really don't like this rule tbh. It means in the event of two equally as fast strategies, I have to go with whatever gets the most score rather than whatever is the most entertaining. Same with downtime.
I agree. Strike this rule. It goes against our general site philosophy: we want to publish the most entertaining run, not one that optimizes some arbitrary variable. Declaring one team the winner because of score is an incredibly narrow evaluation of quality.
If by some magic, two (or more) teams have the same frame count, declare both teams the winner. They both deserve it.
In the event that two or more runs tie for first place based on time, the combined final score (P1 score + P2 score on the trophy screen) will be used as a secondary determinant of rank; the higher score will have a higher ranking.
I really don't like this rule tbh. It means in the event of two equally as fast strategies, I have to go with whatever gets the most score rather than whatever is the most entertaining. Same with downtime.
This is a contest, and winning by score is a purely objective criteria.
It’s not like the winning movie has never been modified before submission to the site.
It's a purely arbitrary criteria I won't be aiming for.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
In the event that two or more runs tie for first place based on time, the combined final score (P1 score + P2 score on the trophy screen) will be used as a secondary determinant of rank; the higher score will have a higher ranking.
I really don't like this rule tbh. It means in the event of two equally as fast strategies, I have to go with whatever gets the most score rather than whatever is the most entertaining. Same with downtime.
This is a contest, and winning by score is a purely objective criteria.
It’s not like the winning movie has never been modified before submission to the site.
Having the most Start inputs in the input log of your movie is also a purely objective criteria. That doesn't mean it's a meaningful way to compare movies, or that it should be used as a tiebreaker.
The winning movie being modified is something of a non sequitur. Generally, the winning movie is modified to utilize the best strategies from the collective pool of contest movies.
Having the most Start inputs in the input log of your movie is also a purely objective criteria. That doesn't mean it's a meaningful way to compare movies, or that it should be used as a tiebreaker.
A higher score is the only way to tell the difference between two equally fast submissions at the end of the game.
RetroEdit wrote:
Generally, the winning movie is modified to utilize the best strategies from the collective pool of contest movies.
Exactly. The final movie will have all optimizations AND entertainment added in. There is no requirement to have Hi Score as part of the goals of the final movie. It's just a tie-breaker for this contest.
Pending approval from CoolHandMike, we are going with this team name and logo:
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
It has been brought to my attention that there are some limitations regarding editing of individual player input in TAStudio. For example, you cannot delete some frames of input from only one player while leaving the other player's input intact. I made a Lua script to assist with that specific task. Please read the comments at the top of the script, since there are some quirks to how it works.
I'll address the issues in recent posts later.
Approval received, we are going with that team name and logo.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
In regards to the contest, adelikat has mentioned that there are many benefits to using 2.5, particularly for TAStudio. I concur (as I've personally been involved in improving TAStudio). Among these benefits are some performance improvements, and more significantly fixing a desync bug in TAStudio (ticket #2186). Add to that it is essentially impossible that a .bk2 that syncs in 2.5 will desync in 2.4, since Uzem (the Uzebox core) hasn't undergone any core changes since 2.4.
Therefore, I will personally be using 2.5 for creating my TAS, and I would recommend doing this to others if they don't want to put up with the problems in 2.4.
Ideally 2.5 would be officially supported by the contest, but Dacicus is on Windows 8, and has decided not to support BizHawk 2.5 because it cannot run on the Windows 8 OS. (Windows 8 is not supported by BizHawk 2.5 because Windows 8.1 is the most up-to-date version of Windows 8.)
So I will still exercise a modicum of caution and make sure my movie syncs in 2.4 before submitting it for the contest, but there is no requirement that the movie be made in 2.4, just that it syncs in 2.4.
After bringing up the question about the level skip button combination with the site judges, it is no longer allowed; see here.
Memory wrote:
Dacicus wrote:
In the event that two or more runs tie for first place based on time, the combined final score (P1 score + P2 score on the trophy screen) will be used as a secondary determinant of rank; the higher score will have a higher ranking.
I really don't like this rule tbh. It means in the event of two equally as fast strategies, I have to go with whatever gets the most score rather than whatever is the most entertaining. Same with downtime.
"Most entertaining" is dependent on the viewer's opinion, as evidenced by the numerous arguments that have happened on the Workbench regarding how entertaining one submission was compared to another, whereas score is objective. WarHippy has already stated the reasoning I used to make that rule, so I do not have anything else to add. The rule stays.
Invariel wrote:
Pending approval from CoolHandMike, we are going with this team name and logo:
I'm sorry, but I believe that having a team number 5 and a separate team named "Team 5" would be confusing, especially since team number 5 has not submitted a name.
RetroEdit: I have updated the rules to clarify that you can use any version of BizHawk to create the run, as long as it syncs on 2.4.0.
That wasn't a request, Dacicus. Our team, the sixth team to be officially registered, is called "Team 5", and that's our logo.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
In the event that two or more runs tie for first place based on time, the combined final score (P1 score + P2 score on the trophy screen) will be used as a secondary determinant of rank; the higher score will have a higher ranking.
I really don't like this rule tbh. It means in the event of two equally as fast strategies, I have to go with whatever gets the most score rather than whatever is the most entertaining. Same with downtime.
"Most entertaining" is dependent on the viewer's opinion, as evidenced by the numerous arguments that have happened on the Workbench regarding how entertaining one submission was compared to another, whereas score is objective. WarHippy has already stated the reasoning I used to make that rule, so I do not have anything else to add. The rule stays.
I wasn't asking for entertainment as a tie breaker, I was asking for no tie breaker.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2792
Location: Northern California
Think of it this way: Two teams that tie are almost certainly using the exact same routes on every stage. If you're having them aim for score as well, they'll have the exact same opportunities to gain score, meaning they'll end up with the same score as well, making the entire thing ultimately pointless.
If teams tie, let them tie.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 | CohostwarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Also I'll be honest, the DTC host does not get the right to veto team names. The only reason somebody should veto a team name is if it is massively inappropriate. "Team 5" is far from that.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Pending approval from CoolHandMike, we are going with this team name and logo:
I'm sorry, but I believe that having a team number 5 and a separate team named "Team 5" would be confusing, especially since team number 5 has not submitted a name.
Then why is my team still listed as “Team B” instead of “Team 2”? This is a bit hypocritical of you if you still have it listed as that, despite me asking you several times to change it back.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
I'm going to echo what several others have said: the site it's about going fast in the shortest time. A tie-breaker has no place here.
If multiple teams submit files that have the exact same frame count, they each deserve the distinction of having won.
The actual submission to the site is already going to take the optimal strategies from all involved teams, again focusing on speed (with entertainment as a secondary criteria, not score), further rendering a tie-breaker rule unnecessary.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
My thought on this tie breaker rule debate is that it is a waste of breath considering how extremely unlikely a tie is...if amusing to talk about it. Also if a team gets the optimal time AND a better score than another it might mean more routing and time put into it so I would not mind that being a tie breaker. If there is a tie then I will eat my shorts.
The only reason somebody should veto a team name is if it is massively inappropriate. "Team 5" is far from that.
I second this. I can understand the confusion between "Team 5" and the unnamed team currently referenced as "Team Number 5". However, since TN5 is unnamed, why not give them a new temporary name until they come up with a name?
Dacicus, if you would indulge us again, our logo has been updated by arukAdo to
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
WarHippy and I were thinking about this: Since the actual estimate that was set for this DTC (8 minutes) is way too much, should we take out 1 week from the allowed time to do the TAS?
Banjo-Tooie runner, DTC 8, 9, 10, and 11 winner, but more importantly, "When's GR?"
Current projects:
Banjo-Kazooie: Grunty's Revenge - 100% (50 minutes)
Mario Party 1 - All Boards (est: 4-6 hours)
Mario Party 3 - All Minigames (est: 40-50 minutes, not sure)
"Ooooh, I saved some more subpixels. Look at those sweet subpixels. You can't look at them, because they're subpixels, but they look so good." - The8bitbeast
"It's as if I knew what was going to happen. It's as if I had the plan written in front of me and I was reading it. I mean, I do have it in front of me, but I'm not reading it." -garagedooropener
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
