Objective: Complete the game as fast as possible without the use of World 5. The fastest route for this objective is to play through the first two worlds and take the cannons in worlds 3 and 6.
Grabbing the Penguin Suit in 3-1 saves ~30 seconds over keeping the Propeller Suit over the course of the TAS.
An intentional ground-pound is done in 3-2 at the end, with the aim of manipulating the RNG of the Ice Bros. that follow. Because of this, I lose half a second in 3-2 only to save ~25 more seconds by not running into any Ice Bros. in the overworld map.
Possible/Theoretical Timesave
Better RNG handing in 3-2.
Getting a faster first pipe cycle than what's already possible in 8-Airship, and performing a trick known as "Coding Double Bombless" with the Penguin powerup instead of using the Propeller powerup. This allows me to keep Penguin into 8-Castle, potentially saving time.
Samsara: Apart from this upcoming usage, my judgement will also not contain a 5.
Samsara: Heads up, we're barreling full steam ahead into another "Samsara starts off a judgement by calling it interesting" moment. I feel like I've had somewhere between 4 and 6 of these since I came back.
So, this is a pretty good movie, optimization looks solid throughout, and the audience liked it, but there's one thing that makes this less straightforward and more interesting of a judgement... That category. The majority of the thread had concerns over the category choice. I will now arbitrarily inflate my judgement note length by directly quoting people in the thread. That statement will be way funnier if you're staff.
"Speaking of the branch however, I don't really see a point of why this would be publishable to the site, we have had examples like this before and most of them aren't accepted really, but I will leave the interpretation of if this a publishable branch to them, but in my personal opinion, I just really don't see the need."
"What is the point of this? If we're not allowed to use the optimal cannon route, then just don't use the cannons at all. No cannons makes more sense since it allows for more gameplay without being arbitrary."
The consensus here seems to be overwhelmingly "this is arbitrary but entertaining, I really wanna see what you can do with cannonless though". Cannonless would definitely be an acceptable goal here alongside the warps and 100% runs. It serves as a proper, middle ground between the two runs, giving a lot more room than the warps run to show things off while still allowing for different routing/entertainment choices over the Star Coin focused 100% run, while also avoiding this run's sole pitfall of just being a suboptimal any% route. SRC even defines the run as such, leading me to believe that this is strictly an RTA-focused category that, as far as I can tell (don't quote me on this, it's pure conjecture from reading SRC), was invented for people to avoid a particularly tricky level skip in the fourth stage of the skipped world. Even if the run was acceptable, the branch name doesn't make any sense: Worlds 4 and 7 are also skipped because of the warps, so singling out one specific world as the category name is simply inaccurate. There's no good way of accurately and concisely defining the category, really.
I'm rejecting this for goal choice. Now I need to eat breakfast, as it's almost 5 in the morning. WAIT, AW HECK,
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I saw the announcement of this run in the NSMBW discord, I haven't watched the whole thing yet, but from the reviews it seems pretty good.
Speaking of the branch however, I don't really see a point of why this would be publishable to the site, we have had examples like this before and most of them aren't accepted really, but I will leave the interpretation of if this a publishable branch to them, but in my personal opinion, I just really don't see the need. I will be voting No based on these viewpoints.
Personally, I branch I would love to see published is a Warpless/Cannonless TAS, just if you need encouragement for something potentially new!
I like to comment on submissions and look around the site. You have probably seen me before (if you have been around for a while) either on the site, Discord, or any other social media. I recently took up making temporary encodes for new submissions.
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xxezrabxxx wrote:
I will be voting No based on these viewpoints.
Did you find this movie entertaining?
Your viewpoints aren't in correlation to the entertainment factor.
Anyways. Hello and welcome to TASVideos Qr1pt1k & Squashh_1.
It's quite an interesting goal choice you have right there for NSMBWii.
It's basically a mix between warps and warpless since you're avoiding the direct route to World 8, via World 5.
It does show great usage of the Penguin powerup in this category which kinda makes me wish to see how dominant it is in warpless.
There is also some matching and some improvements you did over Monster's warps TAS from what I saw. Perhaps the two of you can look into updating that run.
The category is a novel concept, and personally it just made me want more. Yes vote.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
Joined: 10/18/2017
Posts: 171
Location: San Francisco
I like this run because it is considered as a mix of warps and warpless, without world 5. It is a yes because 44 minutes of this run is the best time I’ve seen.
There is a warp pipe or a cannon on world 4 that goes to world 6, skipping world 5. It was likely the fastest time available, with motion used on the Wii remote.
Planned runs:
Marble Madness (Arcade, Genesis J, GG/SMS)
Proposed:
Ecco the Dolphin (Genesis, GG/SMS, CD: regular, camera freeze)
Ecco: The Tides of Time (Genesis, GG/SMS, CD; normal mode)
Mario Kart DS (all cups, all missions)
In progress: Grand Poo World 3 (all exits hard mode)
yep vote
to put it in simple terms becuse i don't think anyone wants me to write a whole blu-ray featurette on this tas. this is a tas for the casual viewer, meaning; this has a good mix of skips n technique which is a great recipe for immediate enjoyment for people unaware about the nuances, and as a person who only played this game once or twice, i can safely say i was really entertained by this tas and the gameplay.
What is the point of this? If we're not allowed to use the optimal cannon route, then just don't use the cannons at all. No cannons makes more sense since it allows for more gameplay without being arbitrary. I'm voting no on this one.
This TAS is very well done and is for my part very entertaining. I like it !
I have however a small restraint on the chosen category, it would work very well for an RTA but a version without the warps would have been more judicious, however I still give my yes vote and hoping that you can offer us other TAS coming from this game.
Interesting category and run. The entertainment never ceased to amaze me.
There were, however, some questionable spots on World 8 that I felt could've been improved by obtaining a Propeller Mushroom, but no matter. The efficiency of the run was all I anticipated.
Goal-wise, it feels to me a bootleg of the "one warp" category from Super Mario Bros. and/or a mix of warps and warpless. This isn't warpless as it still uses warps on World 3 and World 6, but at the same time, it's not "warps" either because it doesn't use the fastest warps available (1 to 5, then 5 to 8). An interesting goal, but I wouldn't know how the judges would react on whether it's acceptable or not. Goal-wise, it's a Meh, but I hope to see a warpless (and maybe one warp, too, although very unlikely) run soon.
Otherwise, no doubt that this run passes on entertainment. Yes vote! Great first effort, guys!
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I'm Asumeh, semi-expert SMB1 TASer. :)
Check out some of the TASes I don't submit/upload to TASVideos on my YouTube channel, if you'd like.
In progress:
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Joined: 11/13/2006
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Location: Northern California
For the record, this is an established category on SRC.
To those who are voting no for the category (which, please don't, the poll question is specifically for entertainment and entertainment value is how the Judges make the call on accepting new categories in the first place): Assuming the run holds up to optimization standards, how would you all feel about accepting it for now with the caveat that it would be obsoleted by a full cannonless run once one is made?
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
Can anyone explain exactly why "no World 5" is a category for this game?
What makes World 5 outstanding in particular, and why should a run skip it?
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
It’s because of the route for any%, World 1’s cannon brings you to World 5, then world 5’s cannon brings you to world 8,
Supposedly it’s to have a “warps” category that features more levels I guess.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
This seems extremely arbitrary of a category, the exact kind we don't want. This kind of category makes sense for RTA to some degree but not really for TAS.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
So it is. And so are "100% without secret exits" and "two players but not one player with two controllers". However, I'm curious why these are established categories (as opposed to, say, "any% without world 3", or "using at most one cannon", or say "100% but skip boss levels where possible"). There might be good reasons for that but it's not particularly clear.
(edit) Oh wait, looks like "One cannon"is a valid SRC goal. As is "gain 99 lives" and "any% including 9-1" and "any% without 8-7". I'm confused who decides on these; can any SRC user just add a goal they like?
how would you all feel about accepting it for now with the caveat that it would be obsoleted by a full cannonless run once one is made?
FWIW I didn't vote "no". But I would find it conceptually weird to have a "some cannons but not other cannons" run.
To give my opinion on the run itself, I think it’s a well optimized category and I enjoyed the overall effort put into it. Unfortunately I have to abstain from voting because I don’t feel this category in question is suitable for what the site wants.
The run makes me want to watch a cannonless TAS or something more akin to a 96 exit route that SMW has. The category I think makes sense in an RTA perspective and I don’t want to argue what that community wants to do for their own game. But I feel like more content could be shown off in a cannonless or a 96 exit type TAS instead.
That being said, I’m impressed by the runner’s skills in optimizations for this game, and I hope they can create some amazing runs for this game in the future, maybe improvements to the any% or 100% tases.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
(edit) Oh wait, looks like "One warp"is a valid SRC goal. As is "gain 99 lives" and "any% including 9-1" and "any% without 8-7". I'm confused who decides on these; can any SRC user just add a goal they like?
Well since you linked the category extensions, the short answer is, yeah. Typical for category extensions is, if 1 run is done, it gets a place on those boards (considering category extensions is literally the meme board).
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
Radiant wrote:
FWIW I didn't vote "no". But I would find it conceptually weird to have a "some cannons but not other cannons" run.
I suppose I should have opened it to the thread at large in that post since I... Kinda meant to do that anyway...
So let me rephrase the question to the thread at large: This category serves as a middle ground between warps and 100%, but is it worth publishing? It would definitely be obsoleted by a proper cannonless run, but I don't feel like the category is non-arbitrary enough by definition ("uses some warps but not all of them" is fine for SRC but not for us) to accept as a middle ground between warps and the actually acceptable middle ground. Middle-r ground, perhaps.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
If you have to use too many exceptions in your goal definition, it's not really a good goal. If we're already talking about replacing the goal with a better goal, it's REALLY not a good goal.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
From a strictly technical standpoint, this TAS was well crafted together, and I won't deny it's pretty entertaining.
However, my issue is with the branch at hand. From what I've seen, this is basically a slower any% TAS, as it uses a much slower warps route (1->2->3->6->8). I realise the intent of this TAS is to beat the game without entering World 5; however, the reality is that it ultimately results in a slower warps route for our standards. At this point, I'd rather see a full-on warpless TAS.
Great first effort, however, I don't believe this is worth publishing.
Abstaining from voting.
Joined: 11/21/2019
Posts: 247
Location: Washington
Yes vote because the run is entertaining. The usage of the penguin suit is quite good and the rest of the TAS seems technically sound to me, though I don't know the game well.
I share the same concerns over the category as many others in this thread but I am not factoring those concerns into my vote.
Joined: 10/18/2017
Posts: 171
Location: San Francisco
fsvgm777 wrote:
From a strictly technical standpoint, this TAS was well crafted together, and I won't deny it's pretty entertaining.
However, my issue is with the branch at hand. From what I've seen, this is basically a slower any% TAS, as it uses a much slower warps route (1->2->3->6->8). I realise the intent of this TAS is to beat the game without entering World 5; however, the reality is that it ultimately results in a slower warps route for our standards. At this point, I'd rather see a full-on warpless TAS.
Great first effort, however, I don't believe this is worth publishing.
Abstaining from voting.
Still, I don't know how it works. I don't know if there is a warp pipe on world 3 or 4 that goes into world 6, skipping world 5. [S]I think it follows as 1->2->3->4->6->8[/s].
I'm going to look for the WR speed run for NSMB Wii run with no world 5 now.
Planned runs:
Marble Madness (Arcade, Genesis J, GG/SMS)
Proposed:
Ecco the Dolphin (Genesis, GG/SMS, CD: regular, camera freeze)
Ecco: The Tides of Time (Genesis, GG/SMS, CD; normal mode)
Mario Kart DS (all cups, all missions)
In progress: Grand Poo World 3 (all exits hard mode)
Joined: 10/18/2017
Posts: 171
Location: San Francisco
Evan0512 wrote:
fsvgm777 wrote:
From a strictly technical standpoint, this TAS was well crafted together, and I won't deny it's pretty entertaining.
However, my issue is with the branch at hand. From what I've seen, this is basically a slower any% TAS, as it uses a much slower warps route (1->2->3->6->8). I realise the intent of this TAS is to beat the game without entering World 5; however, the reality is that it ultimately results in a slower warps route for our standards. At this point, I'd rather see a full-on warpless TAS.
Great first effort, however, I don't believe this is worth publishing.
Abstaining from voting.
Still, I don't know how it works. I don't know if there is a warp pipe on world 3 or 4 that goes into world 6, skipping world 5. I think it follows as 1->2->3->4->6->8.
I'm going to look for the WR speed run for NSMB Wii run with no world 5 now.
Yes vote again. I made a mistake, it is 1->2->3->6->8. It is a great run!
Planned runs:
Marble Madness (Arcade, Genesis J, GG/SMS)
Proposed:
Ecco the Dolphin (Genesis, GG/SMS, CD: regular, camera freeze)
Ecco: The Tides of Time (Genesis, GG/SMS, CD; normal mode)
Mario Kart DS (all cups, all missions)
In progress: Grand Poo World 3 (all exits hard mode)
Looks good, though I look forward to a cannonless TAS.
For some reason at least 49 people think that "No W5" is an actual thing. I'm guessing they just got really bored of any% but didn't want to do a category that takes more than 1.5 hours? Whatever, I don't have anything further to comment regarding that.
Seems strange to me to allow this but not allow 16 Star SM64 on this site, given the latter’s history as a main speedrun category of one of the biggest games on this site.
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Posts: 6446
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mlex wrote:
Seems strange to me to allow this but not allow 16 Star SM64 on this site, given the latter’s history as a main speedrun category of one of the biggest games on this site.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
mlex wrote:
Seems strange to me to allow this but not allow 16 Star SM64 on this site, given the latter’s history as a main speedrun category of one of the biggest games on this site.
That's not really a fair comparison. 16 star was any% for a long time, until faster methods were discovered. Now, it's strictly a suboptimal any% run, and it's made even less acceptable today by the existence of the 70 star BLJ-less run, which serves as a perfect middle ground 1 key and 120 stars.
While this is also a suboptimal any% run at the end of the day (even SRC calls it "any% No W5"), it was at least invented as an alternative to what was already the fastest any% route. Considering this shows more of the game than any% and less of the game than 100%, it was still worth asking the question of whether or not it could serve as a decent middle ground until we get a proper cannonless run, and given the recent posts in this thread I'm pretty much convinced it couldn't. Given the nature of the category, though, it does mean we have to have a little more conversation about it.
Also, daily reminder that we're not SRC or the RTA community at large. We don't, and can't, cater to specific games, we cater to literally every game that could be submitted to us. Our rules - particularly rules about publishable categories - have to reflect that, and they're constantly changing to fit the needs of the site and the audience.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
