Submission Text Full Submission Page
Still not as fast as xQc versus MoistCr1tikal.
Objectives
  • Uses easiest difficulty
  • Genre: Board
Difficulty Choice
Skill Level 1 was chosen for a variety of reasons. First and foremost is because the lower-right side button on the controller is the "Force Move" button, which forces the computer to make whatever move it has so far deemed best. The button only works once the computer has found at least one "suitable" move to make; the first "suitable" move is the one which would be selected by the computer on Skill Level 1. Therefore, there is no point in playing on a higher skill level when you could just press the "Force Move" button as soon as it is allowed. On Skill Level 7, the computer will not move at all unless the "Force Move" button is pressed. I could still select Skill Level 7 just for the fun of it but that would lose time to menuing and I did not want that.
Secondly, say there's a movie which completes an entire game on Skill Level 6 and does not allow pressing the "Force Move" button. It would be massively boring. The fastest checkmate I've found with Stockfish 12 makes the computer think for 7 hours, 12 minutes, and 54 seconds over the course of 30 painstaking moves. See the discussion for more info on this. In other words, Skill Level 1 is chosen not only because the computer thinks much, MUCH faster but it also makes lousier moves as I'll soon get into.
Routing
The goal is not necessarily to checkmate in the least number of moves but to deliver the checkmate that makes the computer "think" the least. For instance, the computer thinks for a cumulative 1:10 over eight moves in this TAS. I have also found a six-move checkmate but the computer thinks for 1:22 and is therefore not faster. Shorter "thinking" times are achieved by keeping the position simple. Giving the computer few options and not attacking with a lot of pieces simultaneously is a good way to minimize thinking times.
RNG
Moves are NOT determined stochastically. The computer's response to a position at a given skill level will be the same every time.
The Computer's Weakness?
The first thing to test for would be to see if the computer falls for any quick mates. I was surprised by how well the computer was able to defend every permutation I threw at it. Eventually, I found a way to make it crack: the computer values potential pawn promotion much higher than it should. In the case of this TAS, Black values getting a pawn to the second rank more than it values its own king! In the end, we have a game which looks like a longer variation of the Scholar's Mate.
Game Summary and Q/A
MoveWhiteBlackBlack's TimeCommentary
1 e4 e5 0:07 King's Pawn Opening.
2 Nf3 d5 0:16 White puts pressure on Black's e5 pawn. Black ignores this and opts for the Elephant Gambit, establishing a pawn duo in the center and attacking White's e4 pawn.
3 Nxe5 dxe4 0:24 Both sides capture.
4 Bc4 Be6 0:38 White eyes up the f7 square. Black defends this with his light-square bishop!?
5 Bxe6 fxe6 0:46 Both sides trade bishops, but Black's pawn structure is now compromised.
6 d3 exd3 0:56 White sets up a distraction, offering to improve Black's pawn structure, which Black is eager to capitalize on.
7 Qf3 dxc2 1:08 The White Queen posts up on the f3 square which is no longer defended... but Black, who is obsessed over the idea of promoting, takes on c2 and does not notice that it's mate in one!
8 Qxf7# 1:10 GG
Q: Why waste two moves to first play Bishop c4 and then capture Black's Bishop? Why couldn't you just play d3 on move 4? A: Responding with literally anything else on move 4 prompts Black to play Knight f6. If Black plays this move, we are not giving checkmate anytime soon. Black's bishop must be captured because it is defending the f7 square, which will later be used for checkmate.
Q: Why couldn't you play Queen h5 on move 6 instead? A: Black would meet that with Knight h6, defending against checkmate. d3 is key to distracting Black and to lure their e4 pawn away from defense of f3.
Piece Movemements
There are also some meta strats going on with the cursor. A piece or square can be selected even if the cursor is on an infinitesimal protion of the square's right or bottom edge, or the bottom-right corner. This allows us to set all our pieces down quite early, and gives an advantage to picking up pieces if they're moving to the right (see moves 5 and 7; their movement distances are shortened due to how far to the right they are picked up).
The cursor becomes active for the player's next turn from the moment the computer starts moving a piece, even though it cannot be seen yet. This is why the cursor is always in the perfect spot when it becomes visible.
Special Options
The (8) key on the left controller allows the player to start as Black instead of White. I've also tested this pretty extensively and no quick mates can really be found. Besides, by going second, you're giving the computer an extra turn to think for which loses a lot of time.
You can actually adjust the skill level on the fly between the computer's turns. I also tested many variations to see if the computer would in some instances make a more dubious move on level 2 than level 1. In some cases, it actually did! But too much time was lost due to extra thinking time so we stayed on Skill Level 1.
Suggested Screenshot Any frame after the CHECKMATE! message appears

feos: While a few people in the thread liked this movie, we can't assume that the general audience of the site is going to enjoy a Chess TAS, judging by the fact that there are no Chess TASes in Moons (or Stars for that matter). Submission votes are currently: 54% (6/0/5). And gameplay itself differs a lot from what usually excites people in a speedrun.
As an illustration, we have a Monopoly movie that stands quite well in Moons, while its counterpart branch is questionable in terms of entertainment and seems to only be there for legacy reasons. No such examples for a Chess game so far.
Since this movie doesn't represent Moons content, its only option would be going to Vault, but the Vault rules ban board games. Here's a thread where the reasons for that are discussed at length.
Maybe the rule wording isn't quite perfect, but its meaning is that videogame adaptations of real-world board games are banned, not anything with traits resembling board games mechanics. For example, we have published collections of minigames to Vault, even though there's a board-like overworld in them. There were some board games that were accepted to Vault by mistake and then we had to move them to Moons to avoid confusion, because Vault is meant to be simple, clear, strict, and serve as a reliable source of information on what we consider a legitimate speed record. We don't hold movies in there if they break Vault tier rules, and they don't set a precedent if they get there by accident.
Maybe someday in the future rules will change, and then due unrejections will happen, but for the time being, I'm rejecting this movie.

TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 14852
Location: 127.0.0.1
This topic is for the purpose of discussing #7017: Winslinator's INTV USCF Chess in 01:21.31
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Publisher, Expert player (2283)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6335
Location: The land down under.
Abstaining vote but it won't stop me to write the important thing. I absolutely dislike the fact that you used the easiest difficulty in chess instead of demolishing and manipulating a harder difficulty.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.
Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4014
The problem is: "On Skill Level 7, the computer will not move at all unless the "Force Move" button is pressed. I could still select Skill Level 7 just for the fun of it but that would lose time to menuing and I did not want that." So the highest difficulty level would take an infinite amount of time, or you'd have to give it an arbitrary amount of thinking time (not vaultable). The fact that the ending checkmate isn't fools and isn't quite scholars even is interesting, too!
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Editor, Skilled player (1938)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3244
Too bad there doesn't seem to be any quick checkmates like the three-move checkmate in The Chessmaster, or something else that exhibits negative IQ in the computer player. Also, regarding highest difficulty, there really isn't anything special nowadays about a TAS beating a chess video game from 1982 on its highest difficulty. In fact there isn't anything special about a TAS beating any chess program on its highest difficulty, unless the chess program is called "Stockfish".
Experienced player (686)
Joined: 7/18/2016
Posts: 77
Location: United States
[quote Spikestuff]I absolutely dislike the fact that you used the easiest difficulty in chess instead of demolishing and manipulating a harder difficulty.[/quote] Maybe I can try and convince you otherwise. Since an argument can be made that pressing the "Force Move" button means you are not playing at the highest skill level (page 12 of the instructions manual even states this), and as Patashu said skill level 7 would not be a vaultable category, it seems the type of movie you would like to see is the fastest checkmate on the skill level 6 computer without pressing the "Force Move" button. So I ran some tests: Using only moves recommended by Stockfish 12 at 35 depth, the computer was checkmated after 31 moves and thinking for 7 hours, 12 minutes, and 54 grueling seconds. Using only Leela-recommended moves, 7.5 hours were spent on the first 30 moves. On move 31, the INTV computer has so far not moved for 24 hours. I'm not sure if they will ever make a move... perhaps the computer doesn't know how to interpret that position. So now, knowing how long it would take to demolish a harder difficulty, I think it's clear why the easiest difficulty was chosen: entertainment. Nobody wants to sit around and watch this game for 7 hours and 13 minutes (or encode that movie!). Believe me, I would've had the same opinion about picking the harder difficulty if the computer wasn't so damn slow.
Experienced player (686)
Joined: 7/18/2016
Posts: 77
Location: United States
Here is the game that was played for anyone curious. Stockfish was white and INTV was black. 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nxe5 d6 4. Nf3 Nxe4 5. d4 Bf5 6. Bd3 d5 7. O-O Nc6 8. Nbd2 Qd7 9. Re1 O-O-O 10. Nxe4 dxe4 11. Bxe4 Bxe4 12. Rxe4 f5 13. Re1 Nxd4 14. Bg5 Bb4 15. c3 Nxf3 16. Qxf3 Bd6 17. Bxd8 Rxd8 18. Rad1 c6 19. c4 b6 20. b4 g6 21. c5 bxc5 22. bxc5 Bxh2 23. Kxh2 Qc7 24. Kg1 h6 25. Rxd8 Kxd8 26. Qe3 Qg7 27. Qe8 Kc7 28. Rd1 a6 29. Qd8 Kb7 30. Qb6 Kc8 31. Rd8#
creaothceann
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 4/7/2005
Posts: 1874
Location: Germany
Winslinator wrote:
So now, knowing how long it would take to demolish a harder difficulty, I think it's clear why the easiest difficulty was chosen: entertainment. Nobody wants to sit around and watch this game for 7 hours and 13 minutes (or encode that movie!). Believe me, I would've had the same opinion about picking the harder difficulty if the computer wasn't so damn slow.
What if the emulator is in Turbo mode?
Experienced player (686)
Joined: 7/18/2016
Posts: 77
Location: United States
[quote creaothceann]What if the emulator is in Turbo mode?[/quote] I was thinking more in terms of the encode that goes on YouTube. The fastest my PC can run BizHawk unthrottled is about 600% which is still over a 1h10m watch for me. Although this actually makes me think: I've seen encodes published at slower speeds for TASes where the game is too fast. Has the site ever put out a high-speed encode for games that are too slow? If not, is say, a 4000% speed encode so that this would fit into roughly 10 minutes something that could be arranged? If so, I just might start putting a Level 6 TAS together.
GJTASer2018
He/Him
Joined: 1/24/2018
Posts: 249
Location: Stafford, NY
I think the only time I've seen "sped-up" encodes are ones where loading screens and such are removed. Even the longest currently accepted submissions don't use any kind of speed up in the way you're proposing.
c-square wrote:
Yes, standard runs are needed and very appreciated here too
Dylon Stejakoski wrote:
Me and the boys starting over our games of choice for the infinityieth time in a row because of just-found optimizations
^ Why I don't have any submissions despite being on the forums for years now...
Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4014
You might be able to find a faster/less enemy thinking win than what Stockfish can offer, since Stockfish plays as though its opponent is as good as it, while the poor Intellevision in reality is no match.
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Experienced player (686)
Joined: 7/18/2016
Posts: 77
Location: United States
[quote GJTASer2018] Even the longest currently accepted submissions don't use any kind of speed up in the way you're proposing.[/quote] A skill level 6 submission of this would be remarkably different from those because it would feature static gameplay for LONG periods of time. It looks like those are all RPGs and one racing game where things are constantly happening, so a speed up would surely ruin those experiences. Not in the case of INTV Chess! [quote Patashu]You might be able to find a faster/less enemy thinking win than what Stockfish can offer, since Stockfish plays as though its opponent is as good as it, while the poor Intellevision in reality is no match.[/quote] I could see that. Stockfish probably made an unnecessary king move on move 24 and INTV made some really questionable pawn moves and the queen move on move 26.
Editor, Skilled player (1938)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3244
Speaking of speed-up encodes, [url= http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=109590#109590]I made a speed-up encode 14 years ago[/url] for a TAS of Battle Chess on the hardest difficulty which abuses glitches, which was 7 "moves" and 11.5 minutes long. Unfortunately the encode has been lost, but the movie file and the "moves" concerned are available 3 posts earlier. (You may need to refer to this page if you know nothing about Battle Chess glitches.) The TASes that are the most in need of an "official speed-up encode" (don't think this has ever been TASVideos policy) are the ones which have the least chance of being accepted on this site in the first place. Your best bet is to attack the Vault rules (no entertainment requirement).
nymx
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Skilled player (1637)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 807
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
I've briefly looked over the other posts, but I'm going with my original thoughts...since I don't have time to absorb all the discussion here. I'm surprised at how easy it was for you to destroy this version. I attribute it to the following: * Limited resources * Doesn't contain "Book Opening" moves (due to ram limitations) * Programming highly logic games was a new venture for coders at that time. From the first few moves, that free pawn really showed the lack of strength the game has. You rightly took advantage and destroyed this with ease. Future consoles certainly expanded on these early efforts and now...games like this are much harder to beat. As with Chessmaster 2600 (SNES), the optimization of TASing it has been discussed for years on end, to the point that a balance between using "Book Opening" moves and discovering the weakness behind the CPU is the challenge. No fools mate here! LOL Yes vote. Great job.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
nymx
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Skilled player (1637)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 807
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Oh I forgot. As for the difficulty, that is certainly a toss up for me. Beating the game fast, at hardest level, certainly will take more time. More entertainment would certainly present itself if you beat it faster, but I've seen games like this and how long it takes to operate on the hardest level. Not sure that I would go for a yes vote, on the hardest. Anyway, it is disappoint...but again, the ease of destruction was very interesting to watch on the chosen level.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Joined: 11/20/2007
Posts: 22
That was fun. Love the deranged CPU pawn making a break for the bottom. :) Really enjoyed the breakdown in the thread as to why the lower difficulty was chosen "for entertainment" - it would be worth pointing that out in the submission text!
Site Admin, Skilled player (1235)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11264
Location: RU
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Banned User, Former player
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
I really think that chess games should be played on the hardest difficulty (that's not "infinite thinking time") because playing on the easiest difficulty might make for a shorter run but is too trivial. (I don't usually care for "triviality" in TASes, but this is one category of games where I make an exception, because it makes sense.) The length of the run shouldn't be an issue in these cases.
TASVideosGrue
They/Them
Joined: 10/1/2008
Posts: 2738
Location: The dark corners of the TASVideos server
om, nom, nom... crunchy!