GamesFan2000
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Joined: 1/4/2019
Posts: 84
Location: Canada
CasualPokePlayer wrote:
GamesFan2000 wrote:
Has anyone ever even really tested if the YI1 Chuck-Eat could be used to execute arbitrary code in any way, or is there something about that type of Chuck that makes it okay for some reason?
The orb glitch, although looks similar, happens entirely inside the game's ROM and is thus allowed.
Happening entirely within the ROM itself definitionally makes it not ACE. I would of course be assuming that the submitter didn't lie here and there was someone checking it (although of course, it's generally fairly trivial to even check this in emulators). Keep in mind the rules are not prohibiting a glitch which can do ACE per se, but rather, does ACE per se (which can generally be defined as redirecting execution to some user controlled RAM; or any RAM not intended to be executed if you want a particularly broad ACE definition). If it's found out you can do ACE with this glitch, that doesn't prohibit the glitch entirely, that just prohibits usage of that glitch doing that ACE (which again, this could be checked fairly trivially in emulators). The newer rules already in place do allow for slower categories to use ACE anyways, in Alternative. In this case however, since that category is a Standard run, it would just be prohibited within that obsoletion chain, instead forming a new obsoletion chain. Of course, if say you find a way to do the problematic glitch without invoking ACE per se, you would end up being able to use it within that obsoletion chain.
So, anything that strictly occurs within the read-only portion is allowed in regular categories. Because the Chuck in YI2 does things in the RAM both in Credits Warp and in 11-Exit Cloud, both are considered ACE, as opposed to the Chuck in YI1 in 11-Exit Orb which happens entirely in the ROM. I still think that the inability to use Cloud in the 11-Exit TAS is a stupid case of red tape.
Dimon12321
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Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (574)
Joined: 4/5/2014
Posts: 1216
Location: Romania
After reading the discussion here and Samsara's official post, I think we may conclude that TASVideos is turning more lenient. So, I'd like to bring in one more topic on this regard. I'll call it "Mercy for inevitable imperfection". This was the trigger for me to write this, but let's be fair, the idea has been floating around for a long time already. There are a lot of games (mentioned here, non-metioned here or faded away within bottomless message polls on Discord) which are really complicated. It takes years to decrypt, examine and re-over-test high and low. A distinct (unique) person, who tends to be a hardcore fan of a specific game, goes through all this hell, becomes its knowledge keeper and it becomes obvious that only he or she can make a TAS worth sharing. But then some life question hits the scene and it can never let go. It may concern its life, family or endless sense of imperfection which one way or the other prevents even an initial TAS submission from ever being provided. What I'm trying to tell. We have Movie Rules, they look good and they provide clear acceptance criterias which should be obeyed, ok, but I think that moral aspect should be brought up to people (both newcomers and veterans). They should understand that TASes, which are "far from perfect", are still valuable and appreciated, especially for complicated games. We should try to make people acknowledge the boundaries of their possible sense of perfection, and that TASing a game more than once is better than investing countless hours into a single, perfect submission which might not even happen as a result. After all, our community is variable by age. Kids join it and get into this trap and not all adults realize the same thing, hence getting into this trap too. Thanks for your attention!
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
DrD2k9
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Editor, Judge, Expert player (2210)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1085
Location: US
Dimon12321 wrote:
After reading the discussion here and Samsara's official post, I think we may conclude that TASVideos is turning more lenient. So, I'd like to bring in one more topic on this regard. I'll call it "Mercy for inevitable imperfection". This was the trigger for me to write this, but let's be fair, the idea has been floating around for a long time already.
I’m posting my reply from that thread here as a way to give my perspective on your “Mercy” concept.
DrD2k9 wrote:
eien86 wrote:
Would a less than ideal RNG roll be acceptable for sub?
As far as I’m concerned, an otherwise visibly optimal run should be acceptable. No run should be rejected only because it’s suspected that better RNG might be possible. If there is indeed a better RNG than what you submit, it would likely take a new movie to prove; otherwise the potential improvement is just theoretical and not something we’d reject for. In a case where a better RNG was possible, known, and known how to make happen, we’d obviously want the more optimal option. Just make sure to mention in your submission notes as to what extent you tested RNG variations. That will both help a judge and other users who may want to try and better the run. Bottom line; if the run looks optimal to a casual viewer, it’s up to a different author (or yourself) to prove your submission sub-optimal by submitting their own improved version. This is not the judge’s responsibility.
Post subject: ...take a deep breath.
Asumeh
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Player (243)
Joined: 7/18/2018
Posts: 78
There's a lot of information in this thread to take in... But I'd just like to say that I enjoyed my time here on the site, and I still do. After reading ikuyo's initial post, I guess I'm a bit concerned about its future too. I don't know what exactly to do to help resolve even a little bit of the situation, but at the same time, I don't wanna make it look like I don't care either.
  • I enjoy my time as a player, making SMB TASes as I go. I don't feel like I'd see myself fit as an active staff member, especially now that I'm busy with life as we know it.
  • I don't wanna fill the site with a bunch of Super Mario Bros. Game Genie and ROM hack TASes, even if just one out of the 99+ runs already featured on the site is of decent quality to be featured on the TASVideosChannel. Because then, what would TASVideos be at this point? Another NESVideos branding? SMBVideos even? Maybe that'd be best suited as its own spinoff instead...
  • Yes, there's the occasional argument and mistreatment here and there, and I'm against this kind of hostility overall. It makes me sad :( But... It's in our nature to have creative differences about things around here, so I guess maybe that part I can understand. Just my opinion but I'd rather see a lot less of it on the site these days 😭
I understand the staff here is more than willing to make the necessary changes to actually make TASVideos feel more welcoming and have enough breathing room, and I encourage that. I only wish I knew what the problem(s) actually was regarding this site. Again, this is a lot of information that I'm seeing on the thread, and I'm not sure if I 100% understand all of it. But I think what I can get out of it is...
  • Various YouTubers (me included) have the software and technology to make and upload encodes of their own tool-assisted speedruns, even if they're not of high quality. I guess this would have to be for the sake of being able to see what a particular run looks like.
  • TASVideos has been a bit more lenient on what can and can't be published; I think I can see that being a reason you've been getting more submissions than usual... Or maybe it's because there have been more users making submissions and sending them your way? Maybe. But I get it, you want to give potential TASers the freedom to showcase their work and get it published, especially considering there are those with inadequate technology to make the encodes. But considering the amount of submissions, it's unfortunate that you won't be able to make it through all of them and (for once) have a cleaned-out submission cache.
I don't even think I got everything right; there were probably a few pointers that I'm missing. I'm not sure if this says much either (besides the part about arguments and mistreating the site) or if any of what I said makes sense, but it's just my take on things right now.
I'm Asumeh, semi-expert SMB1 TASer. :) Check out some of the TASes I don't submit/upload to TASVideos on my YouTube channel, if you'd like. In progress: - Extra Mario Bros. (redo) (with HappyLee and w7n) - I'm currently assisting with finding improvements before the boss. On hold; we're currently struggling to confirm that we have the fastest route. Some debugging may also help with finding glitch exits, but neither of us are experts in that field. - Record my older TASes (excluding any obsolete TASes) and upload to YouTube.
CoolHandMike
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Editor, Judge, Experienced player (888)
Joined: 3/9/2019
Posts: 690
For newcomers to the thread I would like to point out that the news announcement https://tasvideos.org/Forum/Topics/8694?CurrentPage=11&Highlight=532024#532024 has information regarding new changes to the site. Changes were discussed among staff and developers and a lot of them were kicked into motion by this thread which was a call for change to improve the site.
discord: CoolHandMike#0352