LOL I hope this was a 2-month late April Fool's joke.
Even if this was in English, it would not be an appropriate TAS, just as any quiz-based game would not be appropriate.
The ONLY entertaining part was the 5 seconds of the space invaders clone. Make a TAS of nothing but THAT!
I'm sure you worked very hard, but I'm sorry to say to say this TAS is not for this site.
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this game offers no technical entertainment value - it should be a speedrun game only. I guess this is what I get for not checking the site in awhile!
Nicely done, but again, this should not be TAS, but a speedrun
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To me, this is the modern day equivalent of having a Duck Hunt TAS... or for the future when Wii games start being TASed, it would be WiiPlay.
In another way, it reminded me of Xipo's Top Gun 2, where he's just shooting all the time - it can be entertaining at times, but not enough for publication, at least to me.
In the end, I'm in-between a "meh" and a "no" for this. But in that case, it unfortunately means it should probably just be a "no".
On the other hand, I think it would be a great candidate for Gruefood delight, and I can also tell that you did put in a lot of effort!
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voting yes because I see technical merit in finding glitches to skip over stages, and I'm not prejudiced against games that are not very well-known, as I'm sure there's superplaying going on that the average person doesn't even know about, regardless of how exciting the game is to watch.
(The same reasons I thought my Top Gun submission should've been accepted! But decided to cancel...)
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Fun game to watch, and I especially liked how you handled tight turns, but not a TAS quality video.
Too many corrections on straightaways, for one.
Also, you CAN complete the game if you pick one mode. For example, you should pick the King League on Expert (or even Master) difficulty and play all of the tracks in that mode. Now THAT would be far more entertaining and worth the yes vote. As it is, one race on practice mode is not worth publication.
But don't give up! Try to make a full run if you can. And leave it on YouTube; it'll inspire others to try, too!
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There are places for optimization in the video, as mentioned by others in the forum already.
That being said, I kid you not, I was thinking about a Mario 1 coinless run earlier today then I go here and I see this! Whoa.
I DO like the goal. There's plenty of arbitrary TAS goals, i don't know what all the fuss is about, it's perfectly fine.
It's a meh, only because there can be improvements, but this can hold us over until then.
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haha sorry no deal. Not entertaining or impressive. I cant believe this even took 43 re-records - that's too many. This kind of game is only good for TASing if you do something funny with the game programming, like in Heisanevilgenius's Family Feud SNES run, or Ryuto's DS Brain Age run.
And even "Tub" is wrong about this being luck manipulation, as I'm sure you knew where the 500,000 was when you picked the case.
It's a funny choice of game though, kind of like Wheel of Fortune - leave it for YouTube, but not this site.
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This website is for entertainment purposes, and the fastest run should be the main published one
These two statements are contradictory. Is the primary purpose entertainment, or is the primary purpose speed?
They are not contradictory in this case because this specific video is a TAS. The entertainment in this case stems from the very fact that it a speedrun aiming for fastest time at any and all costs. However, if there IS a highly enforced rule in which we must use American versions only, as "Bag of Magic Food" mentioned, then I agree with you in rejection of the movie, or at most published alongside the current one.
rhebus wrote:
Gamerskillsfull wrote:
I choose yes (as a gamer representing the people)!
I didn't vote for you.
Well fortunately, you are a gamer, not of the "people". So your vote wouldn't count anyways.
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You know what? To the average layperson who has no idea what the difference between [PAL] and [U] and [J] is, they wouldn't understand why the fastest run doesn't get the prize.
And I would have to agree with that. This website is for entertainment purposes, and the fastest run should be the main published one, obsoleting any older ones. This is for the entertainment of not only fellow gamers, but for casual gamers and even non-gamers alike.
I choose yes (as a gamer representing the people)!
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Seems that the biggest complaint about this run is the obtaining of the sword. Everyone who thinks this, what if he didn't get it and thus didn't complete the game? Would that make it more acceptable?
there are two options for this:
1) Get to ganon's room with no sword and die, then end.
2) Get to ganon's room with no sword, and then execute a glitch that freezes the game, no death, no game completion
if completing the game is more important there are two more options
3) get to ganon's room with no sword, and die. Then grab a sword and go pwn him and save hyrule
4) get the sword along the way to the final dungeon in order to not have to die and do it all over again. This is what the author chose to do.
I personally would have went with #2
But I agree with Lord Tom that any one of these has their pros and cons and shouldn't really affect the true nature of the TAS.
Like the author said, he could easily do #1 or #2 if the viewers decide that is more logical to them.
Well, personally, the OCD-ness in me loves it the way it is, with fastest game completion.
And WHAT is the deal with all you guys! There are plenty of other runs that violate the conditions set forth, like the Ninja Gaiden 2 pacificist run I mentioned before, for example, as well as other pacifist runs in which the boss MUST be killed. It is ludicrous and discriminatory to reject this movie based on having to kill Ganon with a sword.
The movie is PERFECT the way it is, and anyone who says otherwise is just nitpicking, uselessly bitching, and looking for something to complain about
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[
2) "Pacifist" as goal choice is rather vague, whereas "Swordless" is not. "Pacifist" could imply several things, including never defeating enemies, never killing humanoids, never firing weapons, never killing anything unless needed, etc. In this case, vagueness is actually a plus, since it requires a look at the submission text in order to find out the real goal of the run.
pac·i·fist
/ˈpæsəfɪst/ Show Spelled[pas-uh-fist] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a person who believes in pacifism or is opposed to war or to violence of any kind.
This definition is taken directly from dictionary.com and illustrates why the "pacifist" title is actually quite specific. If taken literally, the title would denote that the character is opposed to any and all acts of violence and would attempt to complete the game w/o any bloodshed.
This is obviously not the case since game completion would be impossible.
I could make the same case for a 100% run in the fact that if taken literally, a true 100% smb3 run for instance, would be forced to collect every menu item possible and have maxed out extra lives before game completion. I think that many people would agree that this would be rather boring from most perspectives, and not be worthy of publication. In addition, the published smb3 run actually skips some of the auto-scrolling levels making it even more compelling to argue that this isn't a 100% run. Yet I think most people are reasonable enough to look past these minor infractions and accept a run of this type as 100%.
I agree with jprofit. I know it's not at TASVideos, but think of the Ninja Gaiden 2 "pacifist" run from speedruns.net. ALL the boss battles could not be done without hitting the bosses! There is no difference between that and this, and this remains entertaining.
Besides, the sword wasn't actually used until only the very end against Ganon. And it doesn't matter that he simply HAS the sword, as in Ninja Gaiden 2 run the TASer has no choice but to HAVE the sword, and simply doesn't use it except as necessary vs. bosses. I stand by my "Yes" vote emphatically.
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Hello Gamerskillsfull, and welcome!
I used to do all the levels in the game just holding the down button. Only things you are looking at can hurt you, so looking straight up works well. Then I'd mess up on the landing and refueling 95% of the time...
In any case, I think a better run of this game will still not be that much more liked. It's just a bad game without much possibility to do something interesting. I suggest you try some other game.
Thanks for the advice! I think I have a new game in mind that may be better suited and hopefully better accepted.
For Top Gun, I've already started making a new one. I know you said it would probably just suffer the same fate as this one just based on game choice. However, I know I can make a better run technically and hopefully sway at least a few people's opinions with some raised entertainment value. But if nothing else, I'll make a run I can be really proud of and it can either go on Alden's Gruefood page or I can just post it on YouTube myself for others to see.
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I decided to cancel this for now because of many complaints about the game's downtime and low-quality action.
I've decided I can clean this up considerably if I do some sprite following, missile following, and maybe some frame-by-frame synchronized movements during the downtime when nothing else is happening.
Also, I am going to use as many missiles as possible, possibly being able to kill more enemies as a bonus, and making it more impressive with the final targets. This will take me a bit longer to produce, but a really good TAS should take more time anyways!
Thanks for the feedback from everyone, I hope the next attempt will be something most everyone can truly enjoy all of.
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Ok,
I seem to be getting lots of negative feedback regarding certain things I anticipated. So I have a question for everyone else:
If I were to redo this TAS doing things like sprite & missile-following on the crosshair (as opposed to meeting the sprite & killing it asap, which is what I did) as much as possible, AS WELL AS using all non-essential missiles before the refueling sequences, would that sway any opinions and make the run more technically acceptable?
I would have to start from scratch, so I'm not going to do it unless people anticipate this would push up the entertainment value enough to accept publishing of the movie.
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I hate this game so much, which is why I'm glad you destroyed it.
Looks good overall. The slowdown seems unavoidable.
Also, the ROM name should be Top Gun (U) (PRG0).
Yeah I know how you feel. Felt good to tear this game a new one.
Thanks for the ROM info, I changed it.
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Voting yes.
If you've played the game yourself you can understand how frustrating this game is. I thought this TAS did an excellent job of showing a difficult game get crushed. Landing and gassing up sequences were always a pain. Also destroying everything is very impressive.
Unfortunately, I think this submission will have the same fate as some other games. Games in the past have been rejected for poor game choice. I'm one for accepting good TASes on games people don't like (even if it's not extremely entertaining), but the majority are not.
This game has been known to cause much frustration among gamers. Another reason i think it's a good addition is because it shows proper play to those that may have not understood the game mechanics "back in the day."
Haha well thanks for your understanding with this frustrating game... AND for making me feel like an old man with that "back in the day" comment lol
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This movie has only 854 rerecords. Where is Randil when we need a WIP that is X frames faster?
This game forces you to move at a set certain speed. Most of the re-records were used for the refueling sequences as well as enemy destruction. As I told NitroGenesis, you'd be hard-pressed to find a much faster run than this. The TAS quality lies in the way the game is completed (kind of like how Track & Field TASes are).
MOST IMPORTANTLY:
Sprites in this game appear at the SAME pixels on the screen no matter which way you are turning, unless there are already sprites on screen as a frame of reference for the game. I cannot throw machine gunfire at an enemy and hit them just as they appear (which would be entertaining), because it is impossible to get the crosshair over to the appearing sprite. For example, if I know an enemy will appear to the right, so I go back a few frames to try to go right and line up a shot that hits them right as they appear, I can try all I want but will NOT be able to. The enemy will always appear right of the crosshair no matter what (The game forces you to go always forward). So unfortunately, no entertainment can be added that way.
If you've ever played the game, you'd know how difficult it is to dodge, let alone destroy, every missile that comes your way since they tend to jump around, there IS some sprite and weapons' sprite popping, and you have to hold "up" or "down" in order to face up or down. Gunfire also gets to be an issue. I first tried an RTS of this game and it was pretty much impossible for me due to the number of enemies, missiles, and gunfire at certain points.
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Sorry,I don't like "Top Gun 1",I think it is slow and not cool:(I hope my "Top Gun 2 100%"(cancelled) will bring you some new funny idea/inspiration.
Well, I can understand you don't like the game. But there are TASes of many bad/less-than-stellar games even on this site. Isn't the point of the site to show TASes, and not necessarily pander only to generally-accepted as liked games?
Uh, he said he doesn't like it, and he thinks it is slow. So no problem there.
Oh, sorry. I got the impression Xipo meant that the actual Top Gun game ITSELF moves slowly and has some downtime... and that he wasn't talking about this run (you'd be hard-pressed to make a much faster run than this in this game).
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Sorry,I don't like "Top Gun 1",I think it is slow and not cool:(I hope my "Top Gun 2 100%"(cancelled) will bring you some new funny idea/inspiration.
Also, I do realize there's a lot of downtime, so I did my best to keep things visually interesting by destroying every enemy possible, not taking damage, and TASing the landing to get as close as possible to the target altitude & speed.
Basically, I saw a need for the movie and explanation of the game and how it works, so I took advantage of the opportunity
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Sorry,I don't like "Top Gun 1",I think it is slow and not cool:(I hope my "Top Gun 2 100%"(cancelled) will bring you some new funny idea/inspiration.
Well, I can understand you don't like the game. But there are TASes of many bad/less-than-stellar games even on this site. Isn't the point of the site to show TASes, and not necessarily pander only to generally-accepted as liked games?
This game actually has some interesting aspects, too. Here's a description I wrote of it (I can't seem to figure out editing my text explanation for the submission):
"In this TAS:
- There was no damage taken
- Weapons choice was optimized to save time
- Refueling sequences played WITHOUT slow-downs, just replayed as necessary (I found these sequences much more doable in real-time w/o frame-by-frame editing).
Top Gun on the NES is basically a misunderstood game. The game is not QUITE as bad as people say it is, and the concepts turn out to be pretty good. In fact, the more I play, the more I like it and appreciate what the developers were trying to do. Landing and refueling - once you figure out what it is you're actually trying to do - is actually well done and gives you a sense of accomplishment when you do it. The problem is with the graphics, unclear and confusing instructions, and overall gameplay.
But remember, this game was PORTED onto the NES. It was originally made for the PC and Commodore 64. In terms of a flight simulation game, Top Gun actually does fairly well. As a video game (esp. for the NES), not quite as well.
The concept of the game is supposed to simulate how actual flight/fight training and combat missions would go in real life. The landing sequences were meant to force the player to monitor his visual distance from the landing target, altitude (up vs. down), speed, and direction (left vs. right). The game has a very nice balance for this once you figure out how to monitor this data.
The problems with the game arose because:
- Unfortunately the developers were not very specific in their instructions, nor did they make it very obvious what the player should be looking at in order to succeed (besides maybe the game booklet, but, really, who reads those things?!)
- Most people tend to ignore the radar instructions since they're not very clear-cut (Most people don't even notice these goals: Alt = 200, Speed = 288).
- The directions are very confusing ("Up! Up!" actually means raise your altitude, and NOT just the nose angle of the plane as shown on the radar).
- Many people tap buttons twice when they're only supposed to do it ONCE (i.e. "Left! Left!" is supposed to mean only tap the "Left" button one time. It says it twice for emphatic purposes only).
They SHOULD have left out the "Up" and "Down" directions on the radar, as well as "Speed Up" and "Speed Down", and let the player monitor this on their own on the plane's dashboard. It would have belayed tons of confusion.
At first, I thought the game designers spent NO time on the game and just tried to push out a game based on a popular movie title to make money asap. That may be only partially true though. Although the game does make you feel like you're in purgatory in terms of graphical detail (~AVGN), I can tell the designers put in a good deal of effort focusing on some of the other aspects of the gameplay:
-For one, it must've been very hard trying to portray a realistic way of landing a plane, and they actually do an okay job, once you know what it is you're trying to do.
- As the missions go on, the levels change. Each level has it's own niche, which is nice (Air-to-air combat, Air-to-sea, Air-to-ground). And mission 4 combines them all and changes the graphics (evening, twilight, then night).
- The lack of music in the majority of the game is to simulate sitting in a cockpit with the jet engine noise.
- The enemies do not get harder, but as you advance in the levels, there are more and more enemies and missiles (especially near the level-ending targets).
Some major flaws such as EPIC sprite popping, overall boring level design, too much downtime, and other things are somewhat forgiveable due to the fact that this game was released in 1987! And, unfortunately, due to the confusing gameplay, most people never ended up fully experiencing the game and the good things that it has to offer. But I've said it before, and I'll say it again: this game takes a LOT of patience to master. But it can turn out to be very rewarding when you accomplish the harder aspects once you know what to do."
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