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ajfirecracker wrote:
What is fastest is not always the most entertaining. If faster runs always obsolete slower runs there's nothing to think about - this is faster.
I think a "human theory ACE" (or human theory geg) would be a perfectly reasonable way to categorize the 7-1 game end glitch that might allow these to be considered separate categories
TASVideos has never particularly been interested in publishing movies that make decisions to intentionally resemble human play. In fact our goals state quite the opposite: that we desire "to resemble superhuman playing sessions".
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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MESHUGGAH wrote:
- If parts of a game require certain knowledge and details in order to complete it, which is educational, but all that knowledge is provided in-game during the course of otherwise normal play, learning and using such knowledge is not a disqualification.
OK: Well I don't even know what should this clause refer to, but you don't need knowledge and details to complete the game. You can complete the game by trying out all the possibilities, since there is no game over in this mode as far as I understood.
An example of what this clause is referring to:
Suppose there is a game with basically minimal educational elements but one character is obsessed with a historical figure and asks questions regarding information said historical figure as a password of sorts. You can find in an ingame library the information needed to answer the question. This would explicitly be considered acceptable, even if you could alternatively find out the information through thorough knowledge of history.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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So first off, I really enjoyed watching this. The super jump usage was really cool.
I don't think "Final Boss Skip" is necessary as a tag here, I'm pretty sure it's only meant for when you skip a final boss in it's entirety, not for skipping individual phases as is done in this TAS.
I'm not sure we need the input showing the collectible totals but it might be able to be included. I could definitely see the value in demonstrating that 100% was indeed collected.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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MESHUGGAH wrote:
I'm still against that "educational rule" because of how it's pointless and the way they are defined. However if you can tell me what happens when you fail the "bonus screen" (at the end of each level, a mathematical/number related question comes up. the difficulty introduces different mathematical tasks. On normal, you need to order 3 numbers from lowest to highest or count the number of objects and select between 3 numbers), I will reflect with the games' features comparing to the educational rule.
edit: the reason this question is crucial, is that the FAQ refers to "bonus screen". However if solving these screens are important to beat the game, than it counts as a normal level, despite how it's presented in the game. While it does occupy only a very small percentage of the gameplay, being an obstacle rasies it's importance.
If you get the answer wrong, Mickey says "Oops" and you are required to guess again until you get the answer correct.
EDIT: As a bit of a side note, I'm not in love with the educational rule as it is currently phrased either, but I wasn't particularly involved in the relatively recent discussion surrounding it. If it were to be revisited, I'm not sure there would be much change.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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There are some additional differences between difficulties that were not mentioned in MESHUGGAH's post. First of all, on higher difficulties the red spheres you can collect throughout the levels serve as ammo for an attack where Mickey blows a bubble. Secondly, on the higher difficulties you MUST find and collect the number as indicated at the start of the level, whereas in the easiest difficulty you can skip it. Thirdly, pressing select merely exits the stage on higher difficulties, you can no longer use it to skip them entirely.
If you touch the wrong number in a stage, no matter the difficulty, mickey merely stops and shakes his head, no damage is taken. The "TVs" displaying numbers will give a star if you jump on it while it matches the number of the stage and nothing if otherwise.
At the end of each stage, you are asked to solve a simple math problem which is randomly determined. I found some improvements on the gameplay in the second level in this TAS but I lost some of that time due to having to manipulate a fast question.
I am currently unsure about whether or not to consider the game educational by our rules. It seems to me that the hardest difficulty should have the best chance of being accepted since in that one, you can actually die, but I would like to hear others' thoughts.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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I don't see how that second issue is exclusive to high score runs. In our rules for games with unclear endings, we allow fastest completion runs to end at kill screens where one is unable to complete the current round. If it was determined that the kill screen can be avoided and the game can be played indefinitely, we would need to find a different stopping place, which holds true regardless of goal.
EDIT: Now the submission you mentioned, Mike Tyson's Punch Out is a bit of a different case from this game given that the clock stop glitch is a thing. In that case you can actually score indefinitely without passing the defined ending point. I'm not sure how to most elegantly handle that. The obvious answer is that any game where score can be obtained indefinitely should not be allowed to have score go to Vault, but if a glitch similar to Punch Out's is found after, that is a tricky situation. That does not seem to apply to this particular submission at all but it could for a number of others. The easiest solution I can think of would be to not allow such methods of delaying game progression indefinitely but I'm not sure how that fits in with spirit of Vault.
EDIT2: After thinking about it some, the same situation could pop up with our rules against triviality where a glitch could be found that renders completion trivial, yet is faster. I think the spirit of the rules could be similar here.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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feos wrote:
Okay I can say that for games that have no way to define full completion at all, and were more or less designed for score instead, it might be a lesser evil to allow that for Vault as a replacement for full completion. I'll see where this gets us.
That seems reasonable to me. Most games I can think of where high score makes sense as a goal do not have a sensible full completion definition.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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feos wrote:
moozooh wrote:
"hard to measure"
feos wrote:
For goals where no limit can be found whatsoever, you constantly balance between unpredictable time and unpredictable score, compromising one or another, or both at once, which makes it a hell to compare and obsolete with improvements, because it's so hard to actually measure improvement.
Since the metric is ambiguous and the final score count is unpredictable (hence the competition aiming to maximize it indefinitely), it makes the primary goal of Vault, record speed, less clear.
By the current Vault rules, you just optimize everything out and try to get the lowest final time possible, optionally fulfilling the full completion requirements. The speed record is legitimate, obvious, easy to understand and to rely on.
Adding an unpredictable metric to it means there will always be a conflict: one can waste time to gain higher score, waste score to save time, get higher score without losing time, and save time without losing score. One also has to be optimal in gaining both score and time, but with 2 unpredictable functions that you now have to definitively control, it becomes really hard to optimize such a movie and to verify improvements. Not impossible of course, but this removes the clarity of goals that Vault is founded on.
Obviously, one should prioritize score for a high score run. Time should only be considered as a tie breaker and for purposes of clean play.
Mixed response means that if we agree with, let's kindly say, half of the crowd and accept a borderline movie, people posting in the thread will completely forget about it, and after publication people who care about ratings will come and fail to get entertained. It happens all the time and it means we can't just rely on half the posters saying "this is not so bad actually". Posters is only one of the factors to account for. Actual movie contents is another one, and judges are supposed to understand what kind of movies we have in Moons based on gameplay and contents. Feedback of those who rate movies after publication is a very important factor as well, and we're also supposed to understand how people are likely to rate; we also encourage raters when we determine whether a movie deserves a star, in addition to other stars related aspects.
Honestly, over time I have started to lose faith in the value of ratings. Very few people actively participate in ratings... at all. I'm really not sure we really should be relying on them to determine popularity as much as we have. Besides, a rating is a fairly arbitrary number, a post indicates much more thought.
This movie does collect all items in earlier loops. So if we decide that 1 loop is enough, then a vaultable full completion movie of this game has already been made and only has to be trimmed, checked for optimality, and has a solid chance to be published.
That is not correct, this movie actually skips a few items, even on the first loop. That is because collecting enough items total immediately ends the screen. Due to this, it is impossible to collect all items in a single loop and given that all items respawn in later loops, I cannot seriously treat collecting them as "optional one-time, irreversible, or otherwise strictly limited accomplishments that can be objectively measured and maximized" as indicated by the full completion rules.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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feos wrote:
The allowed set of goals can't be painlessly narrowed down further, because those are the most popular speedrunning categories, they have the highest demand, and they are fairly competitive. And it can't be painlessly expanded either.
Why do we care about what is the most popular speedrunning categories? I'd argue the only reason we care about speedrun records more than other records is simply that we started out with speedruns and it's what is most popular currently. However, I don't see that as a particularly valid reason to favor them in our rules. Given that it's been 2 years since the last publication that didn't aim for speed as one of its primary goals, even for Moons, I'd argue that something has gone wrong here. Communities that don't aim for speed clearly exist and even thrive, but we don't see any of them here.
I also feel that you'd need to take a different mindset to appreciate this run specifically. I feel this game is at it's most interesting when it is aiming for score. While on the surface level, the game appears simplistic and boring, when you take into account the scoring system, it becomes much deeper. Routing decisions become much more complicated. There's the little goofy jumps off the side of the screen which I really like. Sure it goes on for a while but I feel overall it's really unique and is the content I love to see on the site above all else.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Thank you, DrD2k9 for saying what I more or less wanted to get across in my previous post. I feel you quite clearly indicated how people can find this entertaining.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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It appears the skips mentioned to not be used is that if you hold the select button for long enough, the level simply ends.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Now while I personally don't get much entertainment value from this TAS, I believe that the average viewer could potentially get entertainment value from it. I'd think it would be fairly obvious based on context that SOME sort of glitch brought about the end early and the shock value of the game being completed THAT fast does have some novelty to it. So I don't think this attitude of "what were you even entertained by" is warranted.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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pirate_sephiroth wrote:
Here's a protip: don't listen to grown men with ponies as profile picture.
Personal attacks based on one's avatar are really uncalled for regardless of the statements made in regards to politics.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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This would make it a romhack meaning that the rules for romhacks would apply and it would be judged as such. Given how small the change is, it's safe to assume the answer is no.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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What I meant by that line specifically is that not only would it be breaking the rules, it would be breaking the rules in a suboptimal way. The optimal way would be to trigger ending. This is the same principle that we apply to ACE in our rules:
Movie Rules wrote:
It is not allowed to use arbitrary code inefficiently, creating runs which skip smaller and arbitrary portions of the game than would otherwise be possible.
I see little reason to allow an exception in this case.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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kaan55 wrote:
Alright so this is a question about the improvement run to the Sonic 3 and Knuckles Knuckles run that'll be made in the future.
Currently Knuckles doesn't go for the big rings because that would require dealing with the Super/Hyper transformation mechanics. Namely the ring drain from the transformation and the fact that you can't glide (which is what allows Knuckles to do a lot of his cool movement) with over 50 rings until you transform.
I found a way around this by disabling those transformations entirely. Only problem is it requires the use of a game genie code which the game specifically forbids. Is there a possibility you guys can make an exception for this?
This doesn't seem to be a particularly compelling reason to make an exception here. Game Genies are simply an external way to modify RAM. When using a game genie, it is essentially no longer the same game since the game no longer functions as it was designed. Why allow this game genie code in particular and not allow direct editing of the RAM to call the ending? It really doesn't make much of a difference once you allow that kind of external modification.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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EZGames69 wrote:
electricslide wrote:
Should be in moons, IMO. forget about the whole Vault.
...if this was any other game other than SMB3 (like if it was a shovelware NES title that had this glitch), would you still be saying this?
The fact that it is SMB3 isn't exactly irrelevant. I wished people watched TASes without looking at what game it was but fact is that they do look at the game and we just have to deal with that fact.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Spikestuff wrote:
Fifth, Sixth and Seventh generation consoles all have the same specific function of disabling music in the game's menu.
In some games (specifically 5/6th gen) this greatly saves a great deal of frames due to not loading the music.
We only have 2 games where this case is used (to my knowledge), one for loading and the other for reducing lag (respectively ordered).
[3157] PSX Tekken by Spikestuff in 01:40.00[2952] NES Nobunaga's Ambition by CogneatoSwitch in 12:06.37 - Yes, 3rd Generation.
Ignoring the tiers outright, not caring about anything in regards to "music is entertainment" and strictly focusing on just this factor alone going forward.
Should disabling music specifically to improve the load times (not reducing lag) be allowed in future TASes and would it be a factor in the judge's comments?
I will note that if the answer is Yes that this will open the flood gates of previous movies returning in the light with music disabled. This would be a very strong game changer.
I wish for multiple Judges, as well as ex-Judges (if they want) to put in their thoughts about this please.
Vault Rules wrote:
However if a movie has entertainment significance which is deemed negatively, such as sickening camera angles, seizure inducing activity, and other rectifiable presentation decisions within it, the movie is ineligible for this category, or any other category for that matter.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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ThunderAxe31 wrote:
I'm just concerned if the ruleset chosen is sensible and meaningful enough, though.
This ruleset seems to me to just be a clarification of the rules of the existing branch. Most of what is banned is some form of warp, which makes sense given the goal. The only one I'm not sure about is superswimming. From Zeldaspeedrun's description it doesn't strictly seem to be a type of warp, but it easily leads to warps and seems very powerful.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Honestly, I found this TAS surprisingly enjoyable. Sure the game is fairly simplistic but I found the jumps off screen to be really clever and enjoyed some of the routing, including the jumps past the dino which given how the game glitches out afterwards, is clearly something the developers didn't expect. It was kinda comical how fast it got towards the end as well. The jank probably added to the charm for me but to me this is the kind of superhuman play and out of the box thinking I like to see on TASVideos.
To be honest, I'm not sure that I like that high score isn't a valid option for Vault. It seems to me that Vault is heavily biased in favor of speedruns and against other competitive forms of superplay. TAS doesn't stand for Tool Assisted Speedruns, it stands for Tool Assisted Superplay, yet our Vault policies don't really reflect this. Sure for some games it'd be trivial but same is also true for speedruns.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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MUGG wrote:
In Super Mario Land 2, the Pause bug causes the code execution to return to a wrong place after a VBlank interrupt.
The return address may be $5914 (or other suitable address) in the wrong bank and the game starts executing wrong bytes and eventually causes a block to be created above Mario's head.
Or the return address may be $4067 in the wrong bank which causes the program to eventually jump to RAM where it is possible to have some control over the executed bytes. This may lead to game end glitch, as well as other things such as: immediately ending the level, and other yet unknown outcomes.
What makes the Pause bug lead to one scenario but not the other?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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ThunderAxe31 wrote:
Memory wrote:
Limitations go against the spirit of vault.
Vault has more limitations than the other tiers, as it poses restrains to game choice and goal choice. The only freedom that it introduces, compared to the other tiers, is that it has (almost) no entertaining requirements.
I believe the entertainment requirement is the strictest requirement of all. Making a run that follows rules of Vault is not particularly difficult. Making a run that meets the entertainment requirements of Moons is difficult. In Moons you are not only allowed to, but encouraged to do what is entertaining, because if not, you do not reach Moons. In Vault, you do not care what is or isn't entertaining, merely fast. This movie does not have an unusual goal: it is fastest completion without a doubt. The game choice is also not under question.
If a submission aims for fastest completion or full completion and conclusively completes its objective, I really see only two main reasons it can be rejected from Vault. The first is to fail to emulate a legitimate environment. This is almost exclusively referring to things like manipulating hardware, using bad dumps, etc. The other way is to fail to be superhuman. Using an invincibility code fails to be superhuman. Using a level select code fails to be superhuman. Being trivial to perform fails to be superhuman. Making mistakes fails to be superhuman.
It entirely depends from the personal point of view. Anything can look either different or similar, depending on how we decide to look at it. In the end it all depends from what we want to do about it, that is, if we want to introduce a restrain to such glitches or not. And if that turns to be the case, then finding a yardstick for drawing the difference could be possible. For example, see how the full completion rules does differentiate between what is criteria reached through in-game actions and what isn't. That is indeed a complex definition, and it relies on the ability to handle each case in their uniqueness, yet it's a functional rule because it works with definite criteria that can objectively measured.
Full completion is a much more complex concept than fastest completion as a whole so it makes sense in that case. I'm not in love with how complex the rule is but it's born of necessity.
Now, I understand that you see no reasons to make a distinction between the glitch used for this movie and other glitches, as you only feel the positive aspects of it...
Now I feel this misrepresents me entirely. I feel there is a very obvious negative aspect of this glitch: it's not fun for me to watch.
With Vault, what is entertaining to watch is an irrelevant. In my eyes, there are three relevant points.
Does it complete its objective? Yes. It completes its objective of completing the game as quickly as possible.
Is it performed in a legitimate environment? Well I haven't looked into the technical details myself but it sounds like it is the case or close enough for our rules.
Is it superhuman?
This last one is key to this submission I feel and the answer is quite clear.
Absolutely.
In most TASes we have to resort to gameplay in order to finish the game. Here, we have become so powerful that we don't even NEED gameplay to finish the game when the developers expected us to go through gameplay. Yet it is not trivial to perform by any means. It is not performed using any intended codes or tricks to make the game easier. The game has simply been mastered to beyond what we have previously considered possible.
My one concern would be if this would be easily replicated in other games, but it is in fact not easy to replicate as Masterjun has reassured us:
Masterjun wrote:
jlun2 wrote:
How many games out of the NES library have the DPCM bug?
Every game on a NES console has the DPCM bug.
Not all games implement a DPCM bug workaround.
And even less games have a DPCM bug workaround that can be exploited.
And in most of the cases where you can exploit from the first frame of input, you're just going to end up with a crash you can't manipulate.
The principle applied here is not a rare way to trigger the credits, but a rare way to trigger a crash.
If it would be easily replicated, it would in essence be trivial and fail to be superhuman.
Gameplay requirements would be a completely new kind of requirement. It is one I fail to see the necessity of and one I do not believe people fully grasp the implications of were it to be implemented. When does gameplay start? Would it be on creating a file? If so, what if after starting the game you are immediately asked to name your character. Is this before or after gameplay started? What if a game consists more or less entirely of menus? Where does the gameplay start? Does the gameplay need to be of the same mode as that which we are intending to complete? [2609] SNES Kirby Super Star "game end glitch" by Masterjun in 00:23.03 for example gets the ending for what we consider the final mode from a different mode entirely! Would this still be acceptable?
I feel this whole argument around gameplay is ultimately misguided and derived from preconceived notions of what we want TASing to be. Even if you or I might not like this, other people clearly do. There are actually people who were legitimately entertained by this movie! And currently we have a place for movies like this that might not entertain everyone but allow for fastest and full completions that are considered novel to some: Vault. Why Vault exists is because movies were considered to not be entertaining to enough of the site, but were more or less legitimate methods of completing the game.
Preventing this movie from reaching Vault or separating it for the reasons I have seen listed is completely missing what is appealing about Vault in the first place!
And in any case, despite how much I'm being dedicated to this discussion so far, I don't need at all costs to have my opinion applied to the final decision, as I could still accept an outcome that differs from what I'm expecting.
While I wish I could say otherwise, I must admit, I would be very deeply disappointed in the site if this submission does not make it due to the reasons I have been seeing listed in the thread. I feel we would have abandoned what makes Vault appealing to some people to begin with and instead have turned it into another Moons tier.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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ais523 wrote:
I think it might be a good idea to update the rules for Moons to permit runs that are entertaining when displayed in the correct way, even if a traditional view of what's happening on screen isn't enough to appreciate how they work. That would solve the problem with this game, too (and sidestep any questions about whether any categories are completed and whether gameplay is involved).
I'd argue that with the right presentation, pretty much any game/branch could be made entertaining. There are already numerous submissions where the submission notes etc. are far more interesting than the video itself, I feel opening things up in this way would dilute the purpose of Moons.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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ThunderAxe31 wrote:
As I already wrote in this post, it would be a limitation for Vault-only movies that aim for fastest-completion. The only reason it's not the case for this specific submission, it's because the currently published GEG is Moons. My point is: what if it wasn't Moons? That would mean that it's going to get obsoleted and that there could be no freedom left to compete for that kind of TASing. Since similar glitches could be executed in other games, there are chances that at some point we will see Vault movies getting obsoleted by them, locking away the freedom of competing for a certain kind of TASing in favor of another.
Limitations go against the spirit of vault. I still don't see how this is different compared to other game end glitches. Other game end glitches have had the same sort of accusations of "this isn't playing the game, this shouldn't count". I really don't think this particular glitch is any different.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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ais523 wrote:
A thought experiment: suppose a game cartridge has multiple modes (say, 1-player and 2-player play), but you have an ACE glitch that can be done anywhere, even the title screen. Is this a completion of the 1-player or 2-player game mode? Does it matter if you ACE the relevant bits of memory to specify which game mode you're playing?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
