[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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submission text wrote:
Compared to the current publication I was able to save 10 frames building off of what Simillarian had already done
But this run is 8288 frames whereas the old was 8376. Where did the other 78 frames come from? Emulation differences?
EDIT: ...Wow none of us ever trimmed the previous skate or die run of blank input. I am smart.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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OK so there's basically two concerns. First is "does fastest gameplay obsolete?" Personally I can see a case for both of them to be published since they would be very different, very least one should be sent to playground. There's the argument of "how do you know when it's different enough" and my answer is "by watching with your eyes". However, since there isn't a fastest gameplay run to compare against, this concern can be pushed till later.
The second, and more pressing concern is what implications would accepting this to standard have on triviality and how we currently enforce that. We've rejected runs with far more input than this. The fact that there managed to be improvement is argument in its favor but it was "just" menuing. Personally I'd like to accept it to standard but does this more or less kill triviality as a rejection reason? Would we need to start revisiting old submissions that were rejected for this reason? Will people go "hey why'd you accept this, why haven't you unrejected my run that is way more complicated?" It is in a way Pandora's Box.
To be honest a lot of that is sorta an excuse for inertia. The more we reject or maybe even accept to playground (if it gets moved to standard at any point, it will need to be encoded and published), the more runs will pile up. However, we do lack a lot of judging staff to go through submissions, let alone old ones. That is the tricky part. Do we make it a priority? Do we just say "we'll get around to the old runs when we get around to them"? Or do we put this off further?
Personally I'm starting to lean a bit towards the "we'll get around to the old runs when we get around to them" approach but I could be missing something.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Created it.
EDIT: should probably say it's "ingamecode"
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Sounds good to me.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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welp I completely forgot lol
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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If it is uniquely entertaining, there should be nothing holding this back from Moons. It's not that different from [2059] SNES Mega Man X "password glitch" by FractalFusion in 16:56.88. A sort of "remove the collection requirements" run can easily be appreciated by your typical audience, which imo should be the main factor in deciding between moons and playground.
EDIT: In regards to rules for standard, I'd be ok with a sort of "fastest with codes" but that'd be a discussion for another thread.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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I think revisiting large amounts of submissions every time we make a rule change is a pipe dream. I think the most reasonable course of action is to do them gradually alongside the queue. I'm not opposed to revisiting derivative content (hacks, custom levels, etc.) now that we have a better games system in place, but I'd like to see some updated rules, docs etc.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Since I realized that one can add multiple game groups to a game, and a more direct way of indicating a relationship between two game entries was unlikely to be built any time soon, I decided that a good way to link hacks/level packs/etc. to the original game would be game groups. An example can be found on the Super Mario World game entry. There is a link to a Super Mario World hacks game group where one can find hacks of that game.
EDIT: This will provide a means of hosting more hacks without them being lost or without worrying about cluttering system lists.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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congrats!
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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GMP wrote:
Fortranm wrote:
Memory wrote:
I'm leaning towards keeping Rainbow Edition separate since it's unofficial, however.
We have "Super Duper Mario Bros. (Unapproved Graphics Hack)" listed in Super Mario Bros. though.
That's just a ROM catalog, it's a hack that just changes graphics, so it's listed a version instead of a seperate game. I am not familiar with Rainbow Editon but if it has something more than cosmetic changes then it's not exactly the same.
Rainbow edition is some gameplay tweaks rather than completely original content. I've rewired versions with more than just mere cosmetic differences.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Fortranm wrote:
Memory wrote:
I'm leaning towards keeping Rainbow Edition separate since it's unofficial, however.
We have "Super Duper Mario Bros. (Unapproved Graphics Hack)" listed in Super Mario Bros. though.
Yeah this is a point against having Rainbow Edition separate. It really isn't that big of a change, but I almost feel you're unlikely to search for it under Street Fighter II? Maybe? I dunno.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Are there any good reasons to separate game entries of fighting game revisions ie Street Fighter II, Super Street Fighter II, Super Street Fighter II Turbo? I'm honestly leaning towards no since cross game obsoletion has already happened and honestly people are probably going to search for Street Fighter II and not look for specific revisions.
EDIT: I'm leaning towards keeping Rainbow Edition separate since it's unofficial, however.
EDIT2: To clarify, this isn't to imply that different revisions can't have separate tases, just that they should be found in the same game listing.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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I enjoyed this playaround even if it didn't accomplish a ton. The direction changes towards the end were a real highlight. Any additional thoughts?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Fixed.
On another note, always was curious about what wipeout tasing would be like. I never played the games but still I knew enough of them to be curious. Haven't finished watching but I enjoyed what I've watched so far.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Did you submit the right file? The video is like 16 minutes but the input file is very short. If you upload to userfiles and link that userfile in the replies, we can fix that for you.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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To be honest I'm fine with allowing some degree of author freedom as long as stuff doesn't get overly specific, but lean glitchfest.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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So I used the game rewiring feature on Windows and Linux VVVVVV and the two are now one game entry. I deleted the previous entry for Linux VVVVVV after removing all genres. What I didn't realize is that there doesn't appear to be any public logs for either rewiring games or deleting them. Obviously there's still the server logs but I would prefer public accountability, especially when acting on the scale that I plan to. As such I'll hold off on further rewiring until logs exist.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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I'm not opposed to asking for the abbreviations field to be changed or removed if people don't see much value in it. I'm not sure if it's used in anything in the site code.
So there has been a major change to game entries where instead of having a system tied to the game entry, it is tied to an individual game version. Therefore game entries can have multiple systems listed and have proper cross-system obsoletion. There is also now an admin only operation to rewire existing game pages together.
In my opinion, it makes sense to have game entries shared whenever gameplay is extremely similar, and cross obsoletion can occur. Pokemon versions (Red/Green/Blue/Yellow for example) and various modern operating systems are cases of this. What is not a case is say a GameBoy Advance game and a GameCube game based on the same license with the same title. These are likely to be two completely different games.
My goal long-term is to have people navigate the site largely through game pages, so I'm itching to get started. But if there's any adjustments that make sense, post them.
EDIT: Another potential example would be Lion King SNES vs Genesis. While traditionally cross system obsoletion has not occurred for those games, I feel they are similar enough that people searching for the game are likely to want to see either if not both.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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So I created a wip games database guide.
I did intentionally not mention what to do with duplicate, troll, etc. entries. I want to move away from repurposing entries because frankly I find it obnoxious that it was asked of users. There is now a UI for deleting game entries that only appears if it has no publications, submissions, and userfiles linked to it, but currently it does not remove the entry from game groups and game genres automatically leaving you kinda screwed if you don't remove those beforehand. As such I can't exactly recommend doing that either.
In any case, I would like feedback.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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there isn't an option, for gamecube remove the memory card in configuration or something and that'd probably be enough assuming you don't need the memory card. Otherwise you have to move the save file out of the folder every time you start recording.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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FractalFusion wrote:
Don't mods have the power to remove signatures?
I think removing the signature was sufficient. There was no need to escalate the situation. :)
Mesh repeatedly added different messages to the signature in order to sass moderators for the change. Escalation was warranted.
EDIT: Also locking topic since I forgot
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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MESHUGGAH was banned for 2 months for refusing to cooperate with staff on this matter.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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scrimpeh wrote:
I would personally argue that this is not a "everyone's a winner" club, and some submissions really are bad and should be rejected. I think the site generally has a pretty good attitude about recognizing work these days and the discussion that I see is usually friendly and respectful. I think the word that is used when a submission gets yeeted* is pretty insignificant compared to the rejection message a judge writes and the feedback that is posted under the submission.
Of the choices I've read in the thread, "denied" or "declined" sound best to me. I'd still overall be in favor if just keeping it as it is.
*my suggestion
What about the cases where we aren't rejecting a run for optimization, but simply because due to our current rules or our current infrastructure we can't really accept it? Does it really make sense to use "rejected" in such a case? We're at a point where we have a lot of runs on the queue that are delayed because nobody wants to "reject" a run that we ultimately want to at some point or in some way accept. That creates a lot of unnecessary claims and runs on the workbench that are going nowhere and makes it hard to figure out what actually is having work done on it and what isn't. It isn't just about being nicer about it (tho I am definitely in favor of that too), it's also about being accurate to what we actually mean when we don't accept a run.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Well one could argue that runs that are accepted are being archived in a completely different way. It also could lead to confusion where one might think the status is final when again, we clearly want to revisit submissions when rule changes occur.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
