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SmashManiac wrote:
One thing that I'm wondering though is whether an any%/100% category split should be done here, or maybe have the door open for a glitchless category instead. I'm honestly torn on this one.
I'm wondering the same thing, as saving every friend could be considered as a form of full completion. See this line from the Movie Rules:
If a progress counter is filled by collecting a set of items or fulfilling a set of flags, all individual components of this set must be collected or fulfilled. Collecting or fulfilling the same component multiple times to inflate the progress counter is not counted towards full completion.
So the question is: should this submission obsolete the current movie or be published as a new branch?
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<feos> EZGames69: if Stovent is around, tell him the answer is Yes :D
<EZGames69> Yes to what?
<Mothrayas> yes to everything
<feos> yeah
<EZGames69> Does everything include “no”?
<feos> no
<feos> it's silly to answer yes to no
<Mothrayas> say no to no
<feos> no
<Mothrayas> then the double negative means yes anyway
<EZGames69> No to yes?
<feos> yes
<EZGames69> What about maybe?
<feos> no
<Mothrayas> say maybe to maybe
<EZGames69> Yesn’t
<EZGames69> One of my favorite things reddit came up with is to add “n’t” at the end of a word to make it mean the opposite thing.
<EZGames69> They changed no to yesn’t
<Mothrayas> acceptn't
<Asnivor> they didn'tn't?
<feos> non't
<EZGames69> Rejectedn’t to Starsn’t
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I think we can now discuss the next problem: branching.
I've added the "save glitch" label to this submission, as it's the best way to describe the movie goal according to our standards, and I have to note that we already have a published movie that aims for the same goal, and even though it's already obsoleted, we have to consider if the obsoletion chain should be changed in order to this submission to obsolete it instead.
I have to note that a third possible option would be for this submission to obsolete the current "Coin Case glitch" publication, though I really don't think that it would be appropriate, as the current publication features very different movie content and good entertaining ratings.
Are there any thoughts, opinions, ideas?
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Dimon12321 wrote:
The TAS has been improved by over 14 minutes. zoboner did it!
Please replace my input file with this one: User movie #50931333731417867
Encode has been changed.
The improvement is major, so please make a new submission.
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I'm sorry, but I found it boring. No vote from me.
While I'm not familiar with this game, I'm still a fan of RPG TASing in general, and I couldn't spot anything impressive going on.
Anyway, I still think that it's a worthy work of TASing, it's just that it didn't entertain me.
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feos wrote:
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
the inputs for succeeding in the checksum collision would also need to be different, depending on the whole uninitialized data. For this reason, I'm of the opinion that future submissions that use the same glitch should clear the save data as well.
I don't see how this is a reason. If both methods work in real world, why restrict to just one, even though it's not the fastest one?
Because the faster method seems impossible to verify to me.
From my tests, we can't get a SRAM with all bytes to $FF in real world, and since each byte matters for the checksum collision, it would require for a player to use arbitrary initial SRAM data.
Instead, a save glitch that relies on few uninitialized SRAM bytes could still be reproduced on real hardware, which would prove its validity.
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It's the first time I'm watching a video of this game, and I must say that it looks like a pretty cool game. Still, I find it sad that most of it was skipped, regardless of the cheats usage. Also, while the glitches are cool, I feel that everything happened too fast for me to be able to enjoy watching... So it's a No vote from me.
By the way, I feel that due to the niche nature of this movie, it would be only apprecciated by people that follow the speedrunning scene, and not by average fans of this game.
I admit that a lot of the 1st gen save corruption TASes abuse uninitialized SRAM (all FFs). This is the one crucial step in glitching the game to think you have 255 Pokemon so you can use the menu to corrupt more memory. Unfortunately, that technically means that:
- these two published runs,
- every one of the TASes they obsoleted (other than the JPN door glitch ones),
- all related submissions, and
- all the save corruption work we did,
are all invalid.
How many bytes are required to be $FF, exactly? If these are few, then the setup could still be verified by reading SRAM data from a real cartridge.
feos wrote:
So to clarify, the setup relying on $FF filled SRAM would make the movie shorter or longer? If it'd be shorter, all we need to know is a real life proof that in normal conditions fresh SRAM may be filled with $FF. If it's actually possible, a movie using such a setup may obsolete this one in future.
Even if it was be possible, the inputs for succeeding in the checksum collision would also need to be different, depending on the whole uninitialized data. For this reason, I'm of the opinion that future submissions that use the same glitch should clear the save data as well.
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Spikestuff wrote:
For a future proof case scenario why not just go balls to the walls and go maximum possible at all cases and provide secondary and tertiary as a selectable video source?
We have the resources to do this for PC games.
Then why not encoding all movies at 32K resolution, since some day 32K monitors will be commercialized?
I think that it would make more sense to stick with the current monitor limitations for encoding, and re-encode a published movie after that monitors with a higher hz hit the market.
one core guideline for our encodes is to appear, as closely as possible, as though the run was played on the original hardware.
feos wrote:
Unique events may be happening of frames we're dropping, and there can be no way to just dedup them.
Since there are no PC monitors able to display beyond 240 fps, an encode made at 240 fps is technically not dropping anything when compared to "a run played on the original hardware", as it's being perfectly faithful to what the (latest) hardware does display.
It seems to me that this matter should only affect how such runs should be encoded, and not their acceptability. I think that arbitrary fps settings should be treated like any other game setting, and thus be considered in regard of TAS optimality; if there are any potential problems in that regard, then those should be handled separately.
By the way, from what I can see from this site, known refresh rates are these: 30, 60, 70, 75, 76, 85, 100, 120, 144, 160, 165, 166, 180, 200, 240.
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We have Voting Guidelines for understanding better how submission votes and movie ratings should be applied. In particular, I want to note the following paragraph, as it's relevant to the current discussion:
Voting Guidelines wrote:
Note that not all games are suitable for a TAS with perfect technical rating, similarly to how not all games are suitable for a perfect entertainment rating. Some games simply don't lend themselves for extensive technical achievements (eg. if they are too simple or straightforward, with no route planning, exploitable bugs, etc.).
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Alyosha wrote:
EDIT: CUTEDEMO still has what appears to be some BG color latching behaviour that needs to be implemented in the 'zilog inside' scene. I would need to see it running on real hardware to make sure though.
Does it need to be a monocrome GB or is GBC also fine?
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EZGames69 wrote:
So I have been trying to help some lsnes users get accustomed to working with BizHawk, and they have issues with how TAStudio works compared to lsnes's movie editor. So I'm wondering if there's ways to make TAStudio run as similar to lsnes as possible, so lsnes users will have an easier time using BizHawk?
Could you be more specific? What are the features of TAStudio that you need to make more lsnes-like?
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MrTickles wrote:
Not to be a party pooper, but he's doing soft resets. So its not really a fully playthrough.
The game does remember which level you did beat before soft resetting: note how the level selection cursor always points to the next level. This means that the completion of each level is clear and verifiable.
Well, this Yellow run looks very different to me, and also more entertaining and more interesting. In my opinion it's something that deserves a separate publication, also because it's mainly besed on a glitch that is not available in Red/Blue.
Fortranm wrote:
IMHO, Pocket Monsters Green "select glitch" would serve as a much better alternative "no save corruption" category for Pokemon Gen 1, if it's necessary at all.
In any case, that is a Vault movie, so it's not eligible as an extra branch.
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Excellent movie! I can see that there is a lot of work behind this TAS, and it's also very entertaining. Yes vote.
Note that while this submission aims for full-completion, it contains the very same contents of a movie that starts from Level 20. For this reason, I wonder if this submission should obsolete the current fastest-completion movie.
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poco_cpp wrote:
> A TAS of Lv 00 ~ 20 is also acceptable, and is preferred.
Really? A TAS of LV00～20 is the culmination of my Dr. mario.
So I am happy if it is accept. I would like to post it.
Yes, it is acceptable, I'm sure of it. I will judge it personally. So please, submit the movie.
poco_cpp wrote:
Levels are up to 24, but levels 20 to 24 have a virus count of 84.
There is no difference.
Next to LV 24 becomes LV 24, and there is no ending, so I feel that I do not know the end of the place.
Then, there is no need to play beyond. A TAS of LV00～20 is already doing everything.
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Hi, poco_cpp. I have followed your YouTube channel during the last months (even though I don't understand Japanese language), and I've really appreciated your hard work with Dr. Mario. Great job and Yes vote!
However, this submission is not acceptable, because it's only beating Level 15. In order to be acceptable, a movie must beat the highest Level.
A TAS of Lv00~20 is also acceptable, and is preferred.
By the way, I didn't know that the game has more Levels beyond 20. Are these harder?
From what I can see, Level 20 and Level 21 are the same, because they both have 84 viruses. Is there any difference?
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Memory wrote:
As far as I can tell this was not brought up at all with the Blue No Save Corruption run. If this is the case for that run, it was overlooked entirely.
No, it's not the case for [3655] GB Pokémon: Blue Version "warp glitch" by gifvex in 10:12.00, as the credits roll is triggered by the game, after talking with Prof. Oak in the Hall of Fame.
Anyway, I had a similar doubt while I was judging [3696] GBC Survival Kids 2: Dasshutsu! Futago Shima! by MUGG in 03:16.21, as the glitch used in that movie does set the relative post-game completion flag incorrectly.
For this reason, I talked about it privately with other staff members, and they explained to me that post-game completion flags are not required; the only requirement is to trigger all of the game end routines. If necessary, I'll ask them for permission to display the relative chat log.
judgement text for #5932 wrote:
ThunderAxe31: As the author mentioned, the game doesn't record that the ending 2 has been unlocked, and the ending cutscene features graphical corruption. However, there is no problem since the ending cutscene has been displayed from start to end and then the game gets back to the main screen as supposed, so the game is considered as beaten.
Additionally, while it's not a requirement, the game still recorded the completion flag in the SRAM, so the ending 2 will result as unlocked after resetting the console.
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I fully agree with feos. We don't want to endorse piracy and we don't want to require the players to use software that could potentially bring harm.
I also agree that we can allow hacked ROMs only if the good dump of the relative game is not available. Hacking a good dump just for making it TASable defeats the purpose of making faithfully emulated movies. And if a game just can't sync, then I agree that it cannot be TASed.
The only solution would be for the TAS tool to be able to sync while having the DRM working as intended, in order to avoid both hacks and legality issues.
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For different versions of the same game, or alternate editions of a game, there are many factors in play for deciding if obsoleting a published movie or creating a new branch. The most important ones are movie contents and audience reception.
In my opinion, a Yellow no-save-corruption submission that uses a glitch not available in Red/Blue, should not obsolete the current Blue "warp glitch" publication, but be published as a new branch. However, this is just my opinion, as there would need opinions from more Judges and from the audience. I really can't be sure beforehand about how complex the decision could be.
For what concerns the language versions: using a Japan version of a game is allowed by our rules, but note that the new movie will be accepted only if it features actual gameplay improvements, and not just being faster due to Japanese text being more compact.
In any case, the current Red save glitch publication counts as fastest completion, so it could be obsoleted by a submission with low entertaining; instead, the additional branches require to meet the entertaining standards of the Moons tier.
In that regard, I'm pretty confident that using the Japan version would be a problem for the blank label/no memory corruption branch as, in my opinion, the Japanese language would make that kind of movie unlikely to be enjoyed by non-Japanese people.
For the "warp glitch"/no save corruption branch I'm not sure.
