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I watched this and found it decent in terms of entertainment. I have some questions. From the first SNES Top Gear game I know that managing the gears is extremely important: there you can accelerate way faster while being at the 4th gear. Also, the frame you switch the gear at greatly influences the distance and speed you reach, because it would accelerate you differently depending on some tricky internal mechanics. Does gear switching have the same effects here? If yes, was it as carefully managed? From the first game I also noticed that if you reach a sharp turn with too high speed, for instance from having used nitro, you either get thrown off-road, or you have to brake not too lose too much speed to this. Isn't spending nitro only on (relatively) straight track segments faster? Was all the menuing optimized to death? I see tons of mashing there, and also that sometimes the game would just not react at certain buttons. If this run is to be redone and made more optimal, leaving any sloppiness in the menus would be disappointing. Similarly, the movie should be stopped when the last necessary input is entered - input that results in the fastest game completion, so it should also be entered ASAP. We measure movie time by this last input, not by anything else. How much time would wall glitch save overall? Do all the cars have identical parameters that don't affect time? Is it correct that once you've entered the track using the password glitch, you get money just as a reward for quitting? Have you used the tool that provides the most control over your tas for a newcomer - tastudio? This run syncs on the latest bizhawk release, which got a whole bunch of tastudio improvements. This thing lets you spend the least effort on checking minor things back in the past without having to rerecord the future inputs once again, as well as tons of other helpful features. Can you guys upload TheRallyFTW's movie file to our userfiles so we could do proper comparison? If this run loses to some existing records, or is overall not optimal enough (for example, if some of us can easily and significantly improve it), it will have to be rejected.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Entertainment was not even the critical factor back then, at least not the one explicitly asked by the poll. People did find it somewhat entertaining back then, and voted YES IT SHOULD BE PUBLISHED, but then changed their minds and gave it shitty ratings. Nothing new here.
DrD2k9 wrote:
Edit: If not, every current publication that was accepted before the vault existed needs to be re-evaluated to see if it needs to be demoted.
You mean demoted to vault? Isn't this thread the place where we're doing this already?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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We don't have such a thread yet. BTW, I don't think it's even possible to accurately emulate kicking the console, pulling off the cartridge, this kind of things.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Abusing this mechanic has not been discussed yet, at all. First of all, we need to make sure it's emulated absolutely accurately. Because when we abuse some glitch that heavily corrupts the game, we demand that it provides outcome in principle true to the console. Second, some people would argue that this is abusing the hardware alone, instead of abusing the software of the game that we use as is. On the other hand, we have a Reset button that can be pressed between arbitrary instructions in some emulators, and that's fair game. Third, if you are seriously considering this, we may have a global thread discussing pros and cons, with all the community welcome to participate. Discussing pros and cons together helps finding fundamental problems with such things, and with fixing them if they can be fixed. Bottomline: this is gray area for now.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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It is allowed as long as one is still loading an image for the same game, not a blank image, nor some other game. As I said, for games that require multiple disks, this is possible and allowed. http://tasvideos.org/Bizhawk/PSX.html
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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The premise here is that you'd have to hack the emulator to strip all the UI from it. This happens in situations when no one did or needed this before you. This is exactly your situation. What I linked is things bizhawk is limited to. A user interested in controlling the emulator remotely usually finds these helpful, especially in situations when headless is not even an option. Props for knowing how to post wikipedia links, this sure is valuable skill not everyone has.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I find myself agreeing with MESHUGGAH. We allow losing HP, lives, even continues to save time (unless it throws the difficulty out of the window, like in most Arcade games). And when your goal is tied to winning all the fights, by definition you can't lose. Otherwise, if the game doesn't really punish you for losing, why not abuse that?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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While it's a funny idea, I don't think bizhawk's prereqs will install on PCem.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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We goofed by fully trusting the authors. This is not about blame, but about policies that weren't perfected, seeing the actual reasons of problems and trying to resolve them. I noticed one more thing. In a film about Deep Purple, the band said that managers operate in a certain way. They say "we succeeded" when the band succeeds with their help, but say "you failed" to the band when things go wrong. I guess I made the same mistake here: I said "we" when it was about how well the game was (supposedly) researched, and then I said "the author" when it turned out that it was sloppy. Sorry about this.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Yes, please redo this so that we don't pretend this movie is properly completed. One of the reasons it was accepted in the first place is that we trusted the author's research. And it appeared to be sloppy. I think we'll have to ignore this factor in the future.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Ugh, this engine sound killed it for me. Just unbearable. Maybe people who know the game can enjoy this bike's crazy jumps, and find this a cool concept demo, I'm personally voting No.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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This movie was recorded from unpaused state, so in order to get it to sync, put the game into "roms", start the emulator, launch the game, and while unpaused, press Ctrl+R to get the replay movie dialog, and pick the movie. To dump avi, start the emu from command line with this command, and then do the above.
mame-rr dbzvrvs -aviwrite dump.avi
Link to video
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Mitjitsu wrote:
What's the hold up with this submission, why is it taking so long to get published?
It requires upstream dolphin's avi dumper code to be merged into the dolphin version it was made on, otherwise av desyncs can NOT be fixed during dumping.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cue_sheet_(computing) Bizhawk will not load a .bin file for psx.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Of course. We don't care how long it is if the relevant part is more optimal than the current run, and the rest of it is just as optimal.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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GenericMadScientist wrote:
I did bring up another issue. Say someone wants to do a NG+ TAS on the Japanese version. My understanding is that alongside the TAS, the user would have to submit a movie file creating the desired save file. However, an optimal save file for FM NTSC-J requires use of the Pocketstation accessory, and its infrared capabilities. BizHawk has no support for the Pocketstation, and to my knowledge no Pocketstation emulator currently supports the infrared stuff. Am I right in concluding that an NG+ TAS with an optimal file is at this time just not allowed in any way under the TASVideos rules?
If the game can't be properly emulated, we can't accept a TAS of it, not even a verification movie. Because we can't allow working around this by allowing cheats in verifications.
GenericMadScientist wrote:
While my mind is on this, I'll bring up one more dumb thing (disclaimer: I have no intention of doing this, nor does anyone else to my knowledge, but may as well mention it). Someone could want to do an FM NG+ TAS with the cards obtainable without the Pocketstation. Strictly speaking, the optimal way to do this involves buying the Perfectly Ultimate Great Moth card. This costs 999999 starchips, and the only way to get starchips is to win 5 a time from a duel. A back of the envelope calculation suggests a movie file creating a save file with this card bought could be around 5 billion frames long. It's very possible a bot could make this movie, but I wonder if BizHawk would start breaking at this point. What would the policy be on this?
A 2.5 year long movie? The answer is, it won't work. If you want to know where it dies, just run the fastest core with all the output turned off and see where it breaks.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Here's what I found. Difficulty seems to be address $66. And it seems to affect gameplay differently for values below 5 (in mode B). Values from 4 to 0xFF don't break sync of my test movie. Things I see at that difficulty: Now, difficulty does overflow/reset after 0xFF. But the above looks very much like unique content to me. You can check how it plays after starting the game at mode B and cheating the address $66 to 04. All levels become fairly different, and also clearly harder. Difficulty increments after each time you beat the game. When you start at mode A, difficulty starts at 1, and for mode B, it starts with 2. So I think for this game, a movie should complete 3 loops of mode B, so difficulty goes 2, 3, 4, and then it freezes gameplay-wise, even though the value of the address keeps increasing after new loops. Code that runs every frame to determine object spawns:
Language: asm6502

00:E6C9:A5 6D LDA $006D 00:E6CB:29 0F AND #$0F 00:E6CD:85 77 STA $0077 00:E6CF:A4 66 LDY $0066 00:E6D1:88 DEY 00:E6D2:C0 03 CPY #$03 00:E6D4:90 02 BCC $E6D8 00:E6D6:A0 03 LDY #$03 00:E6D8:98 TYA 00:E6D9:20 E9 F7 JSR $F7E9 00:E6DC:65 77 ADC $0077 00:E6DE:60 RTS
It checks if difficulty-1 is above 3, which indeed means difficulty caps out at 4. NOTE: If all the content of the difficulty 4 appears earlier, then it'd instead be the point to stop the movie after. I just haven't tested every difficulty thoroughly. But this video gives some idea, even though it's for mode A. Link to video
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Using any unrelated disk to swap with breaks the rule that demands the game image to be real. http://tasvideos.org/MovieRules.html#GameMustBeReal If you use a different image and make it interfere with the original image, fully or partially read by the console, you're no longer playing the same game anymore, you're playing two games, or more. If you can make it work on the console (and be accurately emulated) without using any other images, we can continue this interesting talk.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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GenericMadScientist wrote:
My example is Yu-Gi-Oh! Forbidden Memories for the PS1. There's a video of someone performing the disc swap at https://youtu.be/ltwvh_yZbGk. It's not in English so I'll explain. You swap out the disc and put in another one before the end of the duel, and when the game tries to load your drop it bugs out and gives you the 'drop' 000. When this happens, the game takes the bottom card in your deck in the pre-duel menu and morphs it into the card with an ID 256 greater. This can be used to obtain cards that are otherwise unobtainable, e.g. Blue-Eyes Ultimate Dragon, the most powerful card in the game. This would probably speed up the Any% TAS, and would allow you to use said card in an NG+ TAS on the NTSC-U version. It can also give you glitch cards with an ID above 722 (the maximum ID of a normal card), and some of these are very powerful.
Sounds like you need a blank disk image as a part of the multi-disc xml, correct? Does this even work in the emulator?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Samtastic wrote:
I have a question regarding BIOS options for Abe games. When me and Dooty made the original runs, they were done using SCPH1001.bin which gave us the best sync options for the game. Lately I have been in contact with ViGadeomes and he says my Maximum Casualties update I'm working on this year works better with the SCPH1001 oriiginal BIOS. Now, Ultrastars3000 told me that SCPH7003 is a Japanese BIOS and the original USA PS1 console was SCPH1001.
I tried reading this once again, and it makes no sense. You were using 1001. You were told that 1001 works better than 1001. Then you were told that 7003 is Japanese, and 1001 is American. And?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Post subject: Re: entirely wrong wording
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Nach wrote:
Okay, how would you like to improve it?
The only thing that would let us use rating anyhow is a way to create movie lists based on rating. All you can do right now is simply sorting the list you already have, and there's no reason to expect your list is lucky enough to relate to tech top in any way. Right now you can use several movie tokens to create lists, and none of them inherently outputs tech top. The closest you can get is http://tasvideos.org/Movies-Popular.html but that uses combined rating above 8. You can not pick which rating you want to be above 8, and you can not pick a different cutoff. So you end up with a list of 270 movies that take annoying time to load, and then you have to manually edit the link to sort them by rating, because the Filter module doesn't have an option to only show Popular. Like, if you just get to the Popular list and then use the Filter to sort by some rating, you'll get a list of a few thousand movies instead: Popular token will be lost. If we had tokens allowing to show only movies with tech or entertaining rating above X, then both could be used in all sorts of creative ways. Lack of this custom cutoff for entertainment rating is compensated by our promotion based movie system: Newcomer-rec > Stars > Moons > Vault > Gluefood Delight. It's easy to find an already limited list of entertaining movies. It's hard to find such a list for technical movies. I described here how hard it is to obtain info about our most technical movies.
Nach wrote:
My statement on the matter is that while there is some actual link in what occurs between entertaining and technical because one often fuels the other, the actual link in results is of a temporal nature. You can show me all the lists you want, that does absolutely nothing to debunk my claim of the rating link being of a temporal nature. If you want to debunk my claim, you must show that there is a causal link between the two which cannot be broken. Anything else is arguing in the wrong arena.
BTW, before I get too far with this, please explain me on an idiot-proof a rubber duck level why the link here is temporal. Maybe if I see how you learned this, I can learn this myself and we'll be able to skip some unnecessary part of this talk.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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GenericMadScientist wrote:
Say a game doesn't have support for any disc swapping, but disc swapping bugs the game out and lets you get otherwise unobtainable items. Would it be allowed to: 1. Use this to set up a NG+ save? 2. Use this in an Any% TAS?
Do you have an example?
Samtastic wrote:
I have a question regarding BIOS options for Abe games. When me and Dooty made the original runs, they were done using SCPH1001.bin which gave us the best sync options for the game. Lately I have been in contact with ViGadeomes and he says my Maximum Casualties update I'm working on this year works better with the SCPH1001 oriiginal BIOS. Now, Ultrastars3000 told me that SCPH7003 is a Japanese BIOS and the original USA PS1 console was SCPH1001. I feel like maybe it's to do with the games themselves. If you play them on a different BIOS, you will get different sync results? Well, I am making a 100% Exoddus TAS Update on the original BIOS which will make things easier to sync against the 2014 run. There are plenty of new tricks to see in later places like Mudanchee and the Zulags.
I don't understand what you're asking.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Post subject: Re: entirely wrong wording
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Nach wrote:
My statement on the matter is that while there is some actual link in what occurs between entertaining and technical because one often fuels the other, the actual link in results is of a temporal nature. You can show me all the lists you want, that does absolutely nothing to debunk my claim of the rating link being of a temporal nature. If you want to debunk my claim, you must show that there is a causal link between the two which cannot be broken. Anything else is arguing in the wrong arena.
My plan is to look at how users actually use the system, so we could talk about real problems instead of our idea of them. But please give me an example of a statement that'd debunk your claim if it was true. Without such an example I'd have to rely on my own fantasies about this "causal link". I mean, I'm not even sure what kind of information I need to provide here.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Post subject: Re: entirely wrong wording
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Nach wrote:
I don't understand. If a user wants to find top tech for NES movies, they can. I don't see what's missing.
It is too hard to use, this is what I'm saying. I went as far as to say that it's "impossible to sensibly use", partially because of how hard it is.
Nach wrote:
Your suggested method for looking into this only serves to perpetuate the falsehood. What you see today changes tomorrow. Picking data for the experiment means you misunderstand the issue at hand. It's not about data, it's about the system itself.
My point was about how the system is being used, and how usable tech rating is. Saying that tech top list will in future significantly diverge from top entertainment is yet another claim that can't be checked. I say that these top lists will remain very similar forever. Because of how people use tech rating (I'll still get to this).
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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