Posts for zk547


1 2
5 6
Active player, Experienced Forum User, Published Author (302)
Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 131
Thank you everyone! It's an honor :)
Currently Working on: Metal Slug X - Mission 1 (On hold)
Active player, Experienced Forum User, Published Author (302)
Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 131
HappyLee wrote:
By the way, I was hoping that FBA-rr would somehow upgrade, or BizHawk would somehow support Arcade games, so that making Metal Slug TASes would bring fewer headaches. Probably won't happen anytime soon, but I'd still hope that it's just a matter of time that someone kindly rescues Arcade TASers.
That would be amazing, if BizHawk was developed to support Arcade games.
feos wrote:
There's mame-rr. http://tasvideos.org/Movies-TypeMA.html
Is Mame-rr better than FBA-rr? Never tried it out myself...
Currently Working on: Metal Slug X - Mission 1 (On hold)
Active player, Experienced Forum User, Published Author (302)
Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 131
Hey mtvf1. The run never really took off unfortunately, I got really busy again after finishing MS 3 :( Only managed to get half-way through mission 1 (after the 3 missile towers) in March and haven't been able to work on it since then. Not sure when I'll be able to work on the run again... :/
Currently Working on: Metal Slug X - Mission 1 (On hold)
Active player, Experienced Forum User, Published Author (302)
Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 131
mtvf1 wrote:
I forget to say that you should use marco and tarma. Because of the knife trick, eri and fio will make more lag. http://tasvideos.org/4804S.html
Shoot. I already picked Eri and Fio. Is it the way the soldiers die that's the problem? Or is it the sprite of the weapon that causes the lag? I don't want to have to re-do my run from the beginning again...
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
Metal Slug long jump The Metal Slug can travel quick for a moment if it jumps in the moment it lands on the end of a descent. This can be used to save moments in the first Mission. I discovered it by jumping right after landing in front of the distroyed truck. I will publish a movie to show it.
How does this trick actually work? I know about it, but I don't know the conditions of making it work. Do I just jump on the first frame possible?
Currently Working on: Metal Slug X - Mission 1 (On hold)
Active player, Experienced Forum User, Published Author (302)
Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 131
HappyLee wrote:
x2poet‘s old MSX TAS uses Continue at the trains, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea, because having compared it with Sukimos' MSX RTA run, it's probably faster to destroy the trains than suicide and letting them pass. I haven't done any tests, but since there is R and C and before the first train, and in TASes one can fire them a lot faster, and there is G in the second train and bombs in the third train, I think Sukimos' strategy of suicide after destroying might be the best strategy for "2 players, Level-8" TASes as well (not sure, testing is needed).
I think it's definitely faster to destroy the trains because it takes too long for them to pass and they have useful items. There's plenty of resources that you can use to destroy them (R, C, bombs). If death is used, it's best to use it after destroying the 2nd train (same place as Sukimos' RTA). It's possible to plan so that you'll have 0 bombs and no weapons by that point.
HappyLee wrote:
I've finally found a MS3 TAS that uses deaths and Continues properly (by 面点): http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTQ3MDA1MjU3Mg==.html I think it is even faster than zk547's run in some of the places. I really enjoy the strategy of making a player appear eariler using Continue. Now I think using Continue wouldn't bad afterall, if it weren't accused of being "cheating".
Oh it's definitely faster than my run in some of the places. The first 20 minutes of my run were made nearly 3 years ago, so they're really outdated (This was also when I was still pretty new to serious TASing). Not to mention the numerous improvements that can already be made in my run. Continues and deaths aside, I was mind blown from some of the strategies used in that run (using more bombs to save some G shots for Mission 1 boss, 2nd half of Mission 4). The run still ended up being slower than mine because he didn't utilize all the tricks that were known (Faster H, L-trick) and used slower strategies (not using truck glitch to kill Allen fast, getting missiles for the rockets instead of bombs) in a few sections. I don't really consider using Continues as "cheating," but I still don't like using them because to me, they look sloppy and hurt the flow of the run. You can even abuse them to turn certain sections into "1-player sections" by letting the timer run and summoning the 2nd player back once the section has been cleared (See the two-player Metal Slug X TAS on 面点's channel and x2poet's first Metal Slug TAS that was rejected). I think this goes against the idea of a "true 2-player run."
Currently Working on: Metal Slug X - Mission 1 (On hold)
Active player, Experienced Forum User, Published Author (302)
Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 131
For anyone that's wondering about progress, I'm currently still in Mission 1. Progress has been slow because I've been busy and I keep finding improvements in previous sections, making me have to re-do them.
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
mtvf1 wrote:
Camel kamikaze attack on first boss I noticed that after the boss has raised from the ground, the Camel kamikaze attack will hit it 46 times (scoring 4600 points). I wonder how much damage does.
The lua you needed. http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=377603#377603
It scored exactly 81 damage. Looks useless.
Well, that's more than what I was expecting, I thought it only did around 40~50 damage. It might still be useful for the beginning of Mission 2 for destroying the danger barrel.
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
zk547 wrote:
So I'm thinking of working on this game next. I think there are enough improvements to push this run into the 16 min range.
That's great! I hope my ideas will be useful. Good luck! Edit: please post WIPs, so that I can help if I will find possible improvements.
Thanks! I'm planning on posting WIPs whenever I complete a mission (maybe multiple segments for Mission 5 and 6).
mtvf1 wrote:
Did it. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/37141778941291944
Thanks for the lua script, mtvf1. I also found that the user who uploaded the 26:46 Metal Slug 3 TAS, 面-点, also has a few TASes of Metal Slug X, which were made by a player named OGC. 1-player level 4 in 16:35.62 2-player level 4 in 17:11 Both of the runs abuse death (the 2-player one uses continues), but I think they still have some ideas that can be used in a 2-player level 8 run.
Currently Working on: Metal Slug X - Mission 1 (On hold)
Active player, Experienced Forum User, Published Author (302)
Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 131
Metal Slug 3 in 26:46 by 面-点 So I was recently given a link to this TAS that was made about a year ago, that I had no idea of its existence. Although it uses continues and has been well obsoleted by my run, I think there's still some ideas in the run that could be useful in a future Metal Slug 3 TAS. Posting this here as a future reference.
Currently Working on: Metal Slug X - Mission 1 (On hold)
Active player, Experienced Forum User, Published Author (302)
Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 131
I think the community's stance on using continues in Metal Slug was made clear way back when x2poet submitted his first Metal Slug runs that abused death and continues. With the exception of mtvf1's most recent Metal Slug 7 run, it looked like the community preferred that Metal Slug runs don't use continues. What HappyLee is suggesting (I believe), is that Metal Slug runs only abuse death and not continues (so die at most 2 times), which is a slightly different matter cause you would still be clearing the game with 1 credit/"coin." Regardless, I still stand by what I said in the submission thread.
Currently Working on: Metal Slug X - Mission 1 (On hold)
Active player, Experienced Forum User, Published Author (302)
Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 131
HappyLee wrote:
My comparison video's finally done! Check out my first reply in this thread. Enjoy. :)
Awesome video! Thanks for making this. I think I'll take the frames saved numbers from your video and add them to the submission text if you don't mind.
HappyLee wrote:
The only place zk547's new TAS loses time is the final boss of Mission 2. 77 frames are lost due to unknown reasons, probably lag.
Uh-oh... I think the reason I lost those frames is because of the way I positioned my players. I put them farther back than x2poet so I could start using the Zombie blood attack earlier, but I think doing that also caused more of the blood to be on screen, causing lag. I should've compared with x2poet's run more closely. Really unfortunate cause it looks like I managed to save 178 frames in the previous phase (and that should've technically saved frames). :(
HappyLee wrote:
Something to disscuss: Although this TAS and x2poet's MS TASes don't abuse death, I think that "deathless" should be removed from the future goals of Metal Slug TASes.
I personally like not abusing deaths when it comes to using 2 players at level 8. I think it shows complete mastery over the game better because even good MS players struggle to beat this game with 2 players at level 8 without dying. We're already getting a slower time by intentionally playing at this setting for more entertainment value and I think the sense of not dying once through the whole game adds to that value. If it was 1 player level 4, then I wouldn't mind abusing death because then we can go for pure speed. (Though I guess you could then ask why people don't speedrun this game at level 1 for the fastest times). Just my thought on the use of deaths in MS TASes. Maybe it might be time to have another poll/discussion about this matter in a proper thread.
Currently Working on: Metal Slug X - Mission 1 (On hold)
Active player, Experienced Forum User, Published Author (302)
Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 131
HappyLee wrote:
Making a comparison encode. How is it possible that you saved 69 frames even before the "setup screen"? Is it true or I did something wrong?
Huh... Interesting. I didn't even notice that till now. It's true. Somehow the game started up faster in my run than it did in x2poet's run. Not sure why that happened...
Currently Working on: Metal Slug X - Mission 1 (On hold)
Active player, Experienced Forum User, Published Author (302)
Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 131
So I'm thinking of working on this game next. I think there are enough improvements to push this run into the 16 min range. mtvf1, did you make a new lua script for this game too by any chance? (similar to the new one you made for ms3?)
Currently Working on: Metal Slug X - Mission 1 (On hold)
Active player, Experienced Forum User, Published Author (302)
Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 131
So I've been messing around with some settings in FBA-rr and discovered the "Adjust CPU setting." It's set to 100% by default, but when it's set to max (200%), it can significantly reduce lag, if not completely eliminate the lag. This makes some games like Metal Slug 2, which have insane amounts of lag, completely playable at full speed. I was able to record movies with this setting enabled and play them back without any desyncs (this probably needs to be tested more). Is it acceptable to make and submit movies with this setting enabled?
Currently Working on: Metal Slug X - Mission 1 (On hold)
Active player, Experienced Forum User, Published Author (302)
Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 131
Here's a savestate right before Rootmars2 that I often used with moderate success. I know that making an encode with this emulator is an absolute nightmare. I don't know if HappyLee or mtvf1 found a way to make the movie cooperate or if they just tried again and again until it finally miraculously synced one time. I really wish there could be a better Arcade emulator.
Currently Working on: Metal Slug X - Mission 1 (On hold)
Active player, Experienced Forum User, Published Author (302)
Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 131
Are PS2 games TAS-able and accepted? Cause I would be interested in giving a shot with two players level 8.
Zupapa wrote:
There is an important prisoner that I did not get on the final mission, if anyone knows how to make it come up could explain.
If you mean the alien that gives bullets right before you fight Tarma, there are three secret places that give bone items that you have to reveal (at 16:41, 16:53, and 17:02 in the speedrun). When you do that and hit the last secret spot (17:57), the alien will appear.
Currently Working on: Metal Slug X - Mission 1 (On hold)
Active player, Experienced Forum User, Published Author (302)
Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 131
I made a new input file where I simply loaded a savestate right before my last input and recorded my last input (Re-record count at 1 lol). There's no change in the final time. When I tried playing this input file, it played through the whole thing without any desyncs. Maybe everyone else might have better luck with this file instead.
Currently Working on: Metal Slug X - Mission 1 (On hold)
Active player, Experienced Forum User, Published Author (302)
Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 131
When I tried making a savestate before Rootmars2 and playing the movie from the savestate, Rootmars 2 syncs. But now I'm also having trouble playing the movie from the beginning, when it gets to Rootmars2, it always desyncs... The run seems to desync during the first G. There's a noticeable pause from player 1 while he's using G, which should not be happening. If no one is able to watch the movie completely without any desyncs, then maybe I'll re-do the last part of the run? Though it looks like HappyLee was able to get the run to sync till the end?
Currently Working on: Metal Slug X - Mission 1 (On hold)
Active player, Experienced Forum User, Published Author (302)
Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 131
Currently at the 2nd red ball and managed to get the faster F set up. After testing it further with the other F, it appears that a lot of the side flame damage is lost from having 3 F shots hitting rootmars at the same time. This isn't surprising because side flame damage will always get lost whenever you hit an enemy with F and another weapon at the same time. I think the important thing is still getting max damage from the main flame (260 dmg max), which I was still able to do with all F shots. I think one more G from the third red ball should be all that I need and the fight should end before the 4th redball.
Currently Working on: Metal Slug X - Mission 1 (On hold)
Active player, Experienced Forum User, Published Author (302)
Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 131
Alright, tested the faster F. If you stand around the left stitch, you can get almost full damage from F (at least 300+ dmg) and with faster F, both shots of F were able to do that much damage. So you can do at least 600+ dmg with the faster F (I've gotten 620 with good side flame damage). I tried hitting rootmars2 with bombs and knife while the 2 F shots were active and he took damage from them. There was no damage lost from the 2 F shots. So I think the faster F is worth it.
mtvf1 wrote:
make the 2 F pictures together, maybe it should be better, or maybe nothing help.
I tried shooting the 2 F together, but it ended up being slower because I had to delay one of the F shots to shoot together with the other F. I'm currently at the first red ball, trying to get an F for player 1. As of now, the best way to get F from the first red ball requires me to stop attacking for 62 frames. I'm hoping I can find a better way that requires a smaller delay, but I haven't been able to find it.
Currently Working on: Metal Slug X - Mission 1 (On hold)
Active player, Experienced Forum User, Published Author (302)
Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 131
mtvf1 wrote:
zk547, have you test the faster F? I doubt boss can't be hit too many times in every 2 frames. It always happened on other metalslug game.
Not yet. Been busy with work lately so I haven't had time to work on rootmars2. I've managed to TAS the first few F and I can tell that there's going to be lots of lag, especially when rootmars2 shoots the ring. What are some good ways to reduce lag? Use less F and more knife?
Currently Working on: Metal Slug X - Mission 1 (On hold)
Active player, Experienced Forum User, Published Author (302)
Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 131
mtvf1 wrote:
You means cannon or vulcan?
He means the smoke from the cannon, which does 50 dmg to rootmars2. If you use it, then you exit the slug 2 frames later.
mtvf1 wrote:
zk547, which encode do you like?
I think the nico encode is fine.
Currently Working on: Metal Slug X - Mission 1 (On hold)
Active player, Experienced Forum User, Published Author (302)
Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 131
HappyLee wrote:
Edit: The Cammon's damage to the brain is greater than a knife, and it only costs 2 frames before jumping out of the tank. Is it useful? I wonder why it hasn't been used before.
Tested this. For player 1, I get out of the 2 frames later than the earliest time, but for player 2, I get out 5 frames (should be 4, but got a lag frame) because when I try to shoot a cannon on the earliest frame, it doesn't land on rootmars2, but drops immediately for some reason. Even so, since the cannon does 50 damage to rootmars2 (more than knife), I think it's worth it. Maybe X2poet thought the damage done by the cannon wasn't worth it.
Currently Working on: Metal Slug X - Mission 1 (On hold)
Active player, Experienced Forum User, Published Author (302)
Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 131
up to rootmars2 First attempt at doing the last part before rootmars 2. 9158 frames saved in total. The first two doors are best destroyed with 2 bombs and 2 shotguns (it's annoying how everything has 240 hp so a single S shot can't take them out). So I'm forced to use S+knife for taking care of some of the zombies. At the part where I get the 2nd F, if you delay scrolling the screen and kill the extra clone, you can get extra bombs. This ended up only costing about 15 frames, so it's totally worth getting. At the 3rd door, if you lure a clone near it and throw the slug noid close enough to the door while overlapping the clone, you can destroy all three bubbles(?) of the door. When I didn't get the extra bombs, the clone spawned and came to the door at the right time, but when I did get the bombs, the clone comes too late for this trick to be useful. Maybe this is because the timings were thrown off when I delayed the screen scrolling to get the extra bombs. Changing the time of when I killed the previous clones didn't affect how soon they spawned. So I decided to use a single cannon and 2 bombs to destroy the top bubble and then just threw it at the earliest frame possible to destroy the bottom two bubbles. I tried my best to make the hoop shooting bots optimized. F is really not suited to fighting them, but I don't think using only bombs is correct. Using the rebel slug cannons for the first two bots ended up only being about 10 frames slower, but saved me some bombs so I decided to use it. At the end, I tried testing using F+knife on rootmars2. The one in the WIP is the best version I've been able to find. I can't seem to hold down all the time, the player will not use the knife when I try to keep holding down. The input I use for knife is: |↓A|null|←|→| repeat Faster F glitch? I found a glitch that allows you to fire F faster. (The glitch occurs at the beginning of the mothership part where you get 2 F). If you get a new F right after you finish using up all of another F, you can fire 2 shots of F within a few frames. It seems that if all you do is fire F, then you can fire the second shot just 2 frames after the first shot. For some reason, if you crouch, throw a bomb, or try to use turn around cancel, the rate you can fire F becomes slightly slower (have to wait about 4~6 frames), but it goes back to being just 2 frames after some time. This does not work when you try to go from big F to normal F (tested this in the last part before rootmars2). I think this will be really useful for rootmars2 and might even make it better to get F instead of G from the redballs.
Currently Working on: Metal Slug X - Mission 1 (On hold)
Active player, Experienced Forum User, Published Author (302)
Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 131
Excellent run Hartmann. Interesting how the fireflower is no longer worth being used despite all the boss battles you have to fight. One question, is it faster to pick up the blue shell in 8-Tower instead of 8-3?
ais523 wrote:
Why did you pick up and throw a shell near the start of 1-4? I can't see an obvious reason, but you had to slow down to do it, so there must be one. EDIT: You did the same thing with a trampoline in 8-1, wasting even more time, so I'm guessing that this increases your movement speed for the rest of the level somehow. Is this what you mean by "Slope acceleration by Shell"?
Yes, this is what Hartmann meant by "slope acceleration by shell." By throwing an item while traveling down a slope, you can increase your speed as if you weren't in the shell. Jumping on the first frame you go into the shell allows you to keep the speed you were at. Since you are able to reach speeds faster than normal running speed when you run down a slope, doing this trick allows you to maintain that speed for as long as you're in the shell, which is usually the rest of the level in this run. This makes it worth taking some time to pick up an item to use this trick cause you travel so much faster and save more time at the end.
Currently Working on: Metal Slug X - Mission 1 (On hold)
Active player, Experienced Forum User, Published Author (302)
Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 131
HappyLee wrote:
I know a safe place, too, but is there one near the nose that won't cost much time walking?
Yep. There's one right to the left of the nose on the left stitch. It shouldn't cost too much time to walk over there and back. This will be useful for mainly using F because the player with F will not be jumping onto the brain. It's definitely worth jumping onto the brain to use faster knife when G is not being used and leave a few shots of G to use during the jumping and walking phases. It should be tested to see how fast G can be fired downwards while jumping. I know it's fast, but I feel like it's slightly slower than turn-around canceled G.
Currently Working on: Metal Slug X - Mission 1 (On hold)
Active player, Experienced Forum User, Published Author (302)
Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 131
HappyLee wrote:
Have you thought of the idea of getting F for one player and getting all G for another? That way the waiting time can be reduced a lot. The player who gets G can stand on the brain and fire G during jumping (4 shots per jump, really fast).
Interesting idea. I only considered the damage output between each red ball attack (where G does more dmg than F), but F will be able last through 2~3 red ball cycles so it might be worth getting F the first time for one player and then getting G afterwards for the other player. I think 1 F from the red ball should be enough for the whole fight if I do this. It would depend on whether F can make up the damage output initially lost from not getting G from the first red ball in subsequent red ball cycles. G can be fired even faster on the nose by using turn-around cancel (1 shot every 4 frames). So all 20 shots of G can be used up well before the next red ball shows up.
Currently Working on: Metal Slug X - Mission 1 (On hold)
1 2
5 6