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Posted: 2/5/2015 2:08 AM
Enterim
Location: Philadelphia
Joined: 2/28/2012
Posts: 162
Location: Philadelphia
bottle with blue potion in deku tree: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LygCjyB--Xc light arrows in deku tree: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PhX46Mi4j4 pretty exciting stuff! seeds crash on some consoles, nuts crash on others. every category is a real mess. zfg is also testing atm
Posted: 2/5/2015 3:41 AM
Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4091
mxzrules compiled a spreadsheet: http://forums.zeldaspeedruns.com/index.php?topic=1785.0 Btw it seems to crash on iQue. If it can't be done on iQue, It's no longer the fastest version for any%! EDIT: It works in Oot3D Link to video
Puzzle gamedev https://patashu.itch.io Famitracker musician https://soundcloud.com/patashu Programmer, DDR grinder, enjoys the occasional puzzle game/shmup.
Posted: 2/5/2015 5:43 AM
andypanther
Any
Former player
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 1128
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
And everything is going crazy again, because even in 2015, they found new ways to break this game. I knew the 18:07 route wasn't the end of the story, because we're talking about OoT here ^^
Current project: Gex 3 any% Paused: Gex 64 any% There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
Posted: 2/6/2015 6:51 AM
SoulCal
Active player (343)
Location: Texas
Joined: 1/19/2010
Posts: 383
Location: Texas
Patashu wrote:
EDIT: It works in Oot3D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVuZv5-wuBo
I'm expecting most of the glitches in the N64 Majora's Mask will be confirmed to work in MM3D next week. Considering Nintendo rehashed the N64 programming assets for OoT3D, I expect MM3D to be the same situation. Congrats on finding this new glitch! I'm guessing this just removes the trip to Kakariko to get that bottle, as we can just get one in the Deku Tree? Can we even get bugs in the Deku Tree to do Ganondoor?
Posted: 2/6/2015 6:55 AM
AntyMew
It/Its
Encoder, Player (38)
Joined: 10/22/2014
Posts: 425
SoulCal wrote:
Can we even get bugs in the Deku Tree to do Ganondoor?
Not in Deku Tree, but you can in Lost Woods
http://pastebin.com/FqqFQLvA wrote:
However, you are required to get Bugs or a Fish in the bottle for the Wrong Warp to Ganon to work. Neither of this can be found inside the Deku Tree. Meaning you have to exit the dungeon and go into Lost Woods to find bugs under grass, as you can't find bugs or a fish in the Kokiri Forest. *There is a cave with a fish/bugs in Kokiri Forest, but it requires the Song of Storms*.
Just a Mew! 〜 It/She ΘΔ 〜 ███████
Posted: 2/6/2015 11:57 AM
Synx
Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 496
anyone dare to make an estimate on how much time this new glitch saves over the old swordless route?
Posted: 2/6/2015 3:52 PM
FitterSpace
Active player (499)
Joined: 3/30/2012
Posts: 405
Rookie of 2017 Gamecube/Wii TASer of 2017 Gamecube/Wii TAS of 2017
All the RTA speedrunners like Cosmo and ZFG are doing tests on this glitch. They're trying to find the best route and find out exactly how much time this saves. I'm looking forward to Any% speedruns going under 18:00 RTA.
Finished projects: 007: Nightfire 007: Nightfire "All Tokens" Goldeneye: 007 (Wii) Feng Shen Bang (Famicom)
Posted: 2/6/2015 9:25 PM
Pheenoh
Location: Not Japan
Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 102
Location: Not Japan
http://tasvideos.org/MovieRules.html#PlayGamesThatAreEmulatedWell Even if this does turn out to be faster, the TAS will have to be done on GC version using Dolphin. EDIT: Actually, I guess the VC version would be faster... lol
Posted: 2/6/2015 10:54 PM
Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4091
Pheenoh wrote:
http://tasvideos.org/MovieRules.html#PlayGamesThatAreEmulatedWell Even if this does turn out to be faster, the TAS will have to be done on GC version using Dolphin. EDIT: Actually, I guess the VC version would be faster... lol
I was thinking about that. An accurate N64 emulator should crash doing this glitch (since N64 crashes doing this glitch), so if a TAS used this route it would have to be a TAS of the VC version somehow.
Puzzle gamedev https://patashu.itch.io Famitracker musician https://soundcloud.com/patashu Programmer, DDR grinder, enjoys the occasional puzzle game/shmup.
Posted: 2/7/2015 8:16 AM
Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4091
Uhhhhhhhh Ocarina of Time just got completely broken by skater. It causes random corruption of models and other graphical glitches, inventory modification, crashes... http://www.twitch.tv/skater82297/v/3762088 Skip to 1:30:00 in
Puzzle gamedev https://patashu.itch.io Famitracker musician https://soundcloud.com/patashu Programmer, DDR grinder, enjoys the occasional puzzle game/shmup.
Posted: 2/7/2015 9:52 AM
Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4091
Link to video Link to video Link to video Link to video
Puzzle gamedev https://patashu.itch.io Famitracker musician https://soundcloud.com/patashu Programmer, DDR grinder, enjoys the occasional puzzle game/shmup.
Posted: 2/7/2015 10:40 AM
Synx
Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 496
none of this works on N64 right? Making all of this irrelevant
Posted: 2/7/2015 10:54 AM
Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4091
Synx wrote:
none of this works on N64 right? Making all of this irrelevant
No idea. (But if it works on VC or Gamecube, you could make a TAS on those versions.)
Puzzle gamedev https://patashu.itch.io Famitracker musician https://soundcloud.com/patashu Programmer, DDR grinder, enjoys the occasional puzzle game/shmup.
Posted: 2/7/2015 1:04 PM
andypanther
Any
Former player
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 1128
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
I wouldn't have a problem with a separate TAS of VC/GC, even though I will always prefer N64.
Current project: Gex 3 any% Paused: Gex 64 any% There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
Posted: 2/7/2015 2:14 PM
Eszik
He/Him
Joined: 2/9/2014
Posts: 163
Oh please yes, having both this route and the N64 one published would be awesome! I don't know what are the rules for VC runs though, are they considered ports or is their status different?
I problably made mistakes, sorry for my bad English, I'm French :v
Posted: 2/7/2015 4:28 PM
jlun2
Skilled player (1796)
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 5017
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
GBA TASer of 2010
Eszik wrote:
Oh please yes, having both this route and the N64 one published would be awesome! I don't know what are the rules for VC runs though, are they considered ports or is their status different?
Not sure. I asked before, but never really got an answer for VC in general. :P
LLCoolDave wrote:
This seems to be competing for the "Worst looking TAS of 2011" Award.
Posted: 2/8/2015 1:02 AM
Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4091
more info http://forums.zeldaspeedruns.com/index.php?topic=1785.msg29253#msg29253
Puzzle gamedev https://patashu.itch.io Famitracker musician https://soundcloud.com/patashu Programmer, DDR grinder, enjoys the occasional puzzle game/shmup.
Posted: 2/8/2015 2:01 AM
(Edited: 2/8/2015 10:01 AM)
Cronikeys
Location: Indianapolis
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
Chiming in to say that the cause of the crash is hardware and not software related, so the distinction between N64/VC is a tad arbitrary. AFAIK the glitch works on emulators with recompiler just like it does on VC.. so IF a "vc" tas is done, it doesn't even have to be done on dolphin..... technically. That is to say there is no software difference causing this specific difference. I can't think of any precedent for time-saving, hardware-related glitches on this site, but an official ruling [?] would be cool since this issue has come up in other N64 games as well with hardware-dependent glitch differences (Paper Mario iirc has some vc exclusives). My 2 cents? It's a hardware glitch and shouldn't be in a tool-assisted run. The fact that it's possible on certain consoles due to the nature of emulation is irrelevant. Besides, it's in OOT 3D edit: this post is about gim, not the emulator bugs that skater posted
Current Projects: Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Donkey Kong 64, Bubsy II, Paper Mario: TTYD, Barbie (NES), Jinx (EU PSX) YouTube | Twitter | Twitch
Posted: 2/8/2015 3:08 AM
Amateseru
Player (54)
Location: Hyrule
Joined: 9/18/2014
Posts: 79
Location: Hyrule
Cronikeys wrote:
AFAIK the glitch works on emulators with recompiler just like it does on VC...
More or less, to sum up the most important: VC: Deku nuts: fine deku seeds: crash (note that those one are the most important because this glitch is very hard to pull it off with magic and stick) Deku sticks: should work Magic: ? GC: As far as I know it's the same thing as VC N64: crashcrashcrahsshrachashcarahchrash IQue: Deku nuts: crash deku seeds: ? it might works but who care because IQue was only used in any%... magic: ? deku sticks: ? I don't really have informations about IQue sorry Emulator, the most important for the TAS community: Deku nuts: crash Deku seeds: fine Magic: as far as I can tell, it should work Deku stick: It depends (?) That's why I think the GIM (Get Item Manipulation) won't be faster for any% TAS because nuts crash and it's probably too slow to take the slingshot (maybe not tho) BUT... As a speedrunner I was really sad when I realized that nuts crash on emu (I'm an emu player, I can't play on VC) so without paying attention to the rules of zsr, I tried to modify my emulator, and I changed the video plugin (mine was Jabo's Direct3D8 1.7.0.57-ver5) if you put the plugin Mudlord's Rice Video Build 6.1.4 then the deku nuts won't crash anymore, and the deku seeds neither ! (I guess magic and sticks should work too, I also tried deku sticks on B and half of Link's body disappeared, but the emu didn't crash) So pretty much it depends of the plugin (which is quite incredible in my opinion) I guess it could be allowed to use another plugin since Mudlord's Rice is a bad plugin (especially about the pause buffer oh my gosh....) and it's not faster at all than any other version, obviously if you do GIM with nuts then it won't be allowed to do it with deku seeds because it's supposed to crash on VC, it seems legit for me after all, I'm playing on a ROM 1.0 and I don't use blank A even if I could. (oh by the way every version on emulators crash or work for the same item example: Deku nuts crash on jap 1.0 but also on 1.2 US or PAL etc...) Voilà, excuse my bad english u_u
"Lol as far as I'm aware no distinguished TASer gives a f*ck what's accepted. I certainly don't like Bizhawk but I'm glad to hear at least some TASers are picking up the better emulator" a distinguished TASer Working on: -OoT No RBA/WW -Zapper 100% _______________________________________ Follow me on http://www.twitch.tv/amateseru :)
Posted: 2/8/2015 4:25 AM
Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4091
https://twitter.com/zfg111/status/564277509097680898 RIP the dream
Puzzle gamedev https://patashu.itch.io Famitracker musician https://soundcloud.com/patashu Programmer, DDR grinder, enjoys the occasional puzzle game/shmup.
Posted: 2/8/2015 7:44 AM
jlun2
Skilled player (1796)
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 5017
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
GBA TASer of 2010
Amateseru wrote:
As a speedrunner I was really sad when I realized that nuts crash on emu (I'm an emu player, I can't play on VC) so without paying attention to the rules of zsr, I tried to modify my emulator, and I changed the video plugin (mine was Jabo's Direct3D8 1.7.0.57-ver5) if you put the plugin Mudlord's Rice Video Build 6.1.4 then the deku nuts won't crash anymore, and the deku seeds neither ! (I guess magic and sticks should work too, I also tried deku sticks on B and half of Link's body disappeared, but the emu didn't crash) So pretty much it depends of the plugin (which is quite incredible in my opinion) I guess it could be allowed to use another plugin since Mudlord's Rice is a bad plugin (especially about the pause buffer oh my gosh....) and it's not faster at all than any other version, obviously if you do GIM with nuts then it won't be allowed to do it with deku seeds because it's supposed to crash on VC, it seems legit for me after all, I'm playing on a ROM 1.0 and I don't use blank A even if I could. (oh by the way every version on emulators crash or work for the same item example: Deku nuts crash on jap 1.0 but also on 1.2 US or PAL etc...) Voilà, excuse my bad english u_u
How does a graphics plugin have so much influence on things seemingly not related to graphics? 0_o
LLCoolDave wrote:
This seems to be competing for the "Worst looking TAS of 2011" Award.
Posted: 2/8/2015 11:48 AM
Pokota
He/Him
Joined: 2/5/2014
Posts: 779
When you say crash, is it a softlock or an actually dumping crash?
Adventures in Lua When did I get a vest?
Posted: 2/8/2015 12:59 PM
JMC47
Emulator Coder
Joined: 5/8/2014
Posts: 125
I noticed in one of the "crashes" that the embedded framebuffer (at least on the the Virtual Console version) got corrupted; and that can explain why graphics plugins matter for if it will crash or not.
Posted: 2/8/2015 1:03 PM
Amateseru
Player (54)
Location: Hyrule
Joined: 9/18/2014
Posts: 79
Location: Hyrule
No it really crashes, and for the same chest, sometimes it's not even the same error (sometimes I even got an error, but after clicking "ok" I could still play like nothing happened) Really I don't understand too why the graphic plugin matters so much
"Lol as far as I'm aware no distinguished TASer gives a f*ck what's accepted. I certainly don't like Bizhawk but I'm glad to hear at least some TASers are picking up the better emulator" a distinguished TASer Working on: -OoT No RBA/WW -Zapper 100% _______________________________________ Follow me on http://www.twitch.tv/amateseru :)
Posted: 2/8/2015 7:53 PM
JMC47
Emulator Coder
Joined: 5/8/2014
Posts: 125
Again; that sounds like it's corrupting the state of the embedded frame buffer. That can cause hard crashes, feed the CPU bad data, etc. It totally makes sense for the graphics plugin to matter; a less/more accurate plugin may avoid some of the crashes, depending on what's causing it. Assuming it crashes on console in all cases, then we'd assume the better plugin/emulators would also crash.
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