Topic by Comicalflop

Posted: 10/28/2006 5:07 PM

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Comicalflop

Editor, Experienced player (729)

Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA

I know I'd be heavily interested if both came out at the same time, plus it'd be a very interesting and themed day

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Posted: 10/28/2006 5:30 PM

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spockybiemmichab

Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany

What kind of discussion is this? In my opinion, it's done when it's done and it doesn't really matter what's happening to other runs.

Posted: 10/28/2006 6:16 PM

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The 16 and 120 stars runs are totally different. Beside that don't expect for the 2nd or 3rd TAS run of the same game in the same category (i.e. 16 stars run) to become more popular than the 1st run (unless it shows something really new, like this one), even if it is faster.

Posted: 10/28/2006 7:47 PM

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Mitjitsu

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Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

Why not just watch both 16 star and a 120 star and not take presedence over either. Aside that while I was working on the TAS, I discovered a weird wall kicking technique, which might be useful in a few places in a 120 run, because instead of giving the normal animation it gives the double jumping animation while still facing the wall, this could be combined with a A+B dive and could speed up many places and make a few things possible like the quick Tall, Tall Mountain star after the slide. Here the Link I hope this isn't already common knowledge.

Posted: 10/29/2006 12:11 AM

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Jammer01

Joined: 11/24/2005
Posts: 87

1. Bowser red coins [1 star] 1.1. Re-enter and exit boss area 2. Wompa's Fortress; 3. Get the usual 5 stars [6 stars] 4. Enter basement and go to SSL 5. Get usual 2 stars [8 stars] 6. Head for LLL 7. Get three stars [11 stars] 8. Head for HMC and talk to Toad [12 stars] 9. Get three stars in HMC [15 stars] 10. Continue as normal That Toad isn't there until you have 12 stars, so you'd have to get one in HMC, the Toad star, then go back to HMC, because if you get your 15th star in the same loading zone as MIPS, it won't appear until you reload the area. Also, I really don't see how the lobby glitch will save any time at all. The setup time has to be longer than the door opening sequence. keep in mind you have to travel to the door to the basement, which in many cases will be as long or longer than travelling to the door of the course. Then you have to travel to the correct position on the stairs, and climb up. You then start the longjump, and build up speed. Theoretically, I guess if you could enter any course on the very next frame, it could be faster in extreme cases where you'd have to travel across the whole lobby. Maybe i'm overestimating the setup time and underestimating the door opening animation. Has anybody done any optimized timing between the two methods for the proposed route? And I think skipping BoB is a bad idea...two quick stars and no door opening cutscene...that's hard to beat.

Posted: 10/29/2006 12:38 AM
(Edited: 10/29/2006 1:39 AM)

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Mitjitsu

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Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

From the moment I gain control at the lobby door, it took me 10.67 seconds till I saw the black fade during bowser world transition scene, If I was in the centre of the lobby it would have probally been 8 seconds. Now considering getting into the bowser area takes longer. If I was in the central lobby area and tried to get to CCM or WF, imagine how fast that would be becuase the paintings are near impossible to avoid normally during hyperspeed. Mario can simply fly in, although they might not save time becuase of the forced re-entry. Now here's a question, could you seriously achieve that time when going through the star door normally,LJing and diving onto the pit door. You could argue that I have to re-enter but that can be done quickly, but remember that in retrospect that you lose time for travelling down the corridor and waste time going the door, as well as that Mario warps to the lobby on re-entry, but I don't know if the basement doors can be reached quicker from the star door or the central lobby. Something to think about BTW, I collected the third red coin, FODA is three frames ahead of me but I've LJ'ed eight frames earlier than he has so its pretty evenly matched. I'll know for certain whose ahead after the next coin. EDIT: I checked the how long a star door sequence takes from the moment of losing control to the moment of gaining control and it was 8.63 seconds. I'll now find out how long it take to do the bowser corridor. EDIT: Using Spezaffers run as a guide, it took him 1.9 secs from gaining control after the CCM door to initating the door opening sequence. From the start of the door opening sequence to seeing the black fade it took him 11.8 secs. Add that together and you get 13.7 seconds.

Posted: 10/29/2006 12:45 AM

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asteron

Joined: 2/16/2005
Posts: 462

It seems much harder to do frame comparisons in N64 games :/. I am going to be of the opinion that the door animation sequence length gets underestimated.

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Posted: 10/29/2006 12:56 AM

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hopper

Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 804
Location: Canada

Jammer01 wrote:

That Toad isn't there until you have 12 stars, so you'd have to get one in HMC, the Toad star, then go back to HMC, because if you get your 15th star in the same loading zone as MIPS, it won't appear until you reload the area.

I wasn't aware that any of the Toads didn't appear until a certain number of stars had been collected. What about the Toads on the 2nd and 3rd floor? Talking to them would be much faster than playing a level.

TASing or playing back a DOS game? Make sure your files match the archive at RGB Classic Games.

Posted: 10/29/2006 1:44 AM

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Mitjitsu

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Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

I'm starting to think that after bowser it might be quicker to do the quick BoB star, then do the lobby glitch into WF and re-enter and exit the area once its complete. Although I'm now gonna have to do some very complex timing s over the coming days just to work all the time wasted/ time gained from using various routes and strategies.

Posted: 10/29/2006 1:53 AM

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SilentSlayers

Active player (308)

Joined: 8/25/2006
Posts: 287

Trick I discovered, its a bit faster im quite sure. if TAS'ed it could be even faster then this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDSc1VKGjWk

Posted: 10/29/2006 2:11 AM

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Zurreco

Former player

Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA

Silent_Slayers wrote:

Trick I discovered, its a bit faster im quite sure. if TAS'ed it could be even faster then this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDSc1VKGjWk

That actually looks a lot slower than what Spezzafer does in the 16star movie.

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Posted: 10/29/2006 6:12 AM

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SilentSlayers

Active player (308)

Joined: 8/25/2006
Posts: 287

keyword "looks"

Posted: 10/29/2006 6:12 AM

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SilentSlayers

Active player (308)

Joined: 8/25/2006
Posts: 287

plus its not Tas'ed perfect.

Posted: 10/29/2006 6:45 AM

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hopper

Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 804
Location: Canada

TAS it and tell us how it goes.

TASing or playing back a DOS game? Make sure your files match the archive at RGB Classic Games.

Posted: 10/29/2006 7:17 AM

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SilentSlayers

Active player (308)

Joined: 8/25/2006
Posts: 287

I can't TAS, I brought it here to show someone to TAS it and compare.

Posted: 10/29/2006 8:22 PM
(Edited: 10/29/2006 8:53 PM)

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Mitjitsu

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Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

Here's the bowser world TAS, sorry it took so long becuase there is an expenetial amount of possiblties in terms of movement. I collect the star roughly 20 frames faster than FODA, and the way I enter the pipe is 6 frames quicker and it only took a few re-records to do all that. Although FODA you did an amazing job TASing that stage and I agree with anyone who says that his version is much better stylisticly. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2480/SUPER%20MARIO%2064%20%28USA%29.m64

Posted: 10/29/2006 8:42 PM

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hopper

Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 804
Location: Canada

The camera angle isn't as interesting, but it's a remarkable accomplishment. Well done!

TASing or playing back a DOS game? Make sure your files match the archive at RGB Classic Games.

Posted: 10/29/2006 8:48 PM

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YautjaElder

Joined: 3/29/2006
Posts: 273
Location: Sweden

Good job AKA.

Posted: 10/29/2006 11:07 PM

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mr_roberts_z

Former player

Joined: 7/21/2006
Posts: 747
Location: Northern Hemisphere

Oh, ye gods... Excellent work, AKA!

Super Mario 64 TASes and stuff.

Posted: 10/30/2006 2:21 AM

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laughing_gas

Former player

Joined: 10/1/2006
Posts: 1102
Location: boot_camp

Good work AKA, but I thought there was a moment in the Bowser level where Mario just stalls for a split second. Could just be my imagination, though.

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Posted: 10/30/2006 12:56 PM

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SpiDeY

Joined: 11/29/2005
Posts: 317
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil

Well done man! I certainly wasn't expecting that! The camera angle didn't changed much so it wasn't that entertaining, but it was stilll good.

Posted: 10/30/2006 1:45 PM

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fluffy_kitten

Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 36
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

Very nice, AKA. I don't see what the big deal about the camera is. You should be paying attention to his crazy moves instead of the camera!

Posted: 10/30/2006 4:46 PM

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Mitjitsu

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Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

FODA, or anyone else. Can you give me tips on performing the chain chomp star BLJ move. I have a save state which initates the BLJ get mario trapped partially within the moving platform at the optimal time, but I can never get mario to go anywhere near the chain chomp grate as he always goes where FODA aims mario on the KBO star. I have to admit that now I realise FODA was right about doing BoB first before Bowser because of the shorter travelling distance between the BoB and the main Lobby in relation to WF, unless by some miracle I discover that the lobby glitch is faster overall that entering the door normally and then being able to leave normally. I think I might try to hex edit Bowser area and BoB so I can swap them around. Although I've tried hex-editing m64 stuff before, but its not nearly as friendly as GENS was, since I tried to erase movies to figure out exact points the actual hex code showed the entire input of the movie. EDIT: OK done it. Although I haven't compared it to FODA's run and I can't find a way to replicate what happens in the 16:07 run, although I think I get the star faster than it, but I take longer to reach the ground after collecting it. I tried to put more effort into the camera work this time so you could see properly whats happening.

Posted: 10/30/2006 7:26 PM

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mr_roberts_z

Former player

Joined: 7/21/2006
Posts: 747
Location: Northern Hemisphere

Yeah, you had some nice camera work with the Chain Chomp star.... The backflip was a nice idea, but you were right; it does slow you down... A jump and butt-stomp would have been less interesting...but faster.

Super Mario 64 TASes and stuff.

Posted: 10/30/2006 7:55 PM

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Mitjitsu

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Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

Does anyone know if the m64 of the 16:07 is available, because it would be good if I could compare with his video. Now Its the hardest star in the run i.e. shoot into the wild blue. Where's the Link to FODA's video of it? I sort of have an idea of what to do becuase I know that the cannon ball area can be reached in two moves, but I think this will probally be the highlight of the run for the viewer, but it sure will be hell for me. Mr_Z: I couldn't do the jump and butt stomp because the only way I could cancel the actual hyperspeed movement, is ducking with Z.