No.

You can't extract the game and its features from the entertainment of the movie and say that everyone should objectively look at the fact that you pushed this game to it's entertainment limits. Sometimes that just isn't enough.

Meaning, there is no way to not compare it with other things. I wasn't saying that we don't do it. I was saying that you focusing on that is wrong, as there is no way to do otherwise.

Noob, if you don't agree with our rules and want to leave the site, then leave the site. If you're only going to stick around to argue with and/or insult other users, then we may have to force you to leave ourselves.

And that's why Speed Fighters get accepted much quicker than a playaround. As the goal is already set for the Vault. Playaround fighters always gets more attention by the users who know what a playaround TAS is. If a user doesn't provide feedback on why they voted No, you question it. Literally see your Amakusa's Revenge TAS for the exact same thing, where it was bombarded without any justification. The difference is you had people who actually do fighter TASes come out first. grassini, Cooljay & AKheon. They all do different forms of Fighter TASes and each of them had their opinion on the TAS each valid and understandable as to why they voted like that. Then you have someone who is keen on seeing something new (andypanther) you slammed them right down. What kind of justification is that? You follow up by actually targeting one of the Judges (who fun fact has also done a Fighter TAS). To echo Moth's point.

You cannot force people to be entertained. No matter what you think if their votes are "justified" or not, they are still their own feelings and personal opinions, and they are still valid. You cannot invalidate someone's subjective opinion on entertainment.

The judging system was fair enough, and everyone has a valid point as to why they voted, if they voted and didn't justify it, it's what they did. When you tally the votes on the forums against the actual provided ratings it was still more towards Meh/No and not Yes. If I actually did vote, I would've voted Meh. The TAS became stale very quickly and overstayed its time. Honestly if you want to make another fighter TAS based around playaround. I can point out one TAS which can be taken over without issue: [773] SNES Killer Instinct "playaround" by Dark_Fulgore in 09:59.18

I don't see how the majority of our fighting game playarounds got accepted as opposed to this ,but i can only understand it as the fact that you guys don't play any fighters at all at any level or simply don't have an interest/familiarity with the specific game.It's probably the first because the concepts applied here are well known to people playing fighters(cancel,link,empty cancel,resets,JDs or parry) and this game is pretty loose to apply them in extreme all the time(hence the infinites).It's basically Third Strike if it were actually good and without limitations. Sadly,I think the only "improvement" here would be to cater to the audience's short attention span because the game really doesn't have glitches and bugs enough for the audience by making the run shorter with just the glitches and few matches.Also,it's pretty clear it's not going for speed and so do our shitty playarounds like tekken3 so I guess what really matters to get a playaround here is if the game is known or not,besides some supposed standards. Hopefully people stop submitting anything here(i'm one of the dumbasses responsible for asking in youtube comment sections my fellow fighter TASers to submit TASes here and now i understand why everyone avoids it so much).There are already more TASes not submitted here because of this behavior. the dark fulgore tas is another bad example of game's being known and getting accepted.

Also,it's pretty clear it's not going for speed and so do our shitty playarounds like tekken3 so I guess what really matters to get a playaround here is if the game is known or not,besides some supposed standards.

No, what gets a playaround accepted is what the general audience thinks of it. The audience at large. The whole crowd, people who like fighters and people who don't like fighters alike. If you want your TASes to be universally accepted by the community, find a community of fighting game enthusiasts. This is TASVideos, not FightingGameVideos. I've made this argument to people signing up to defend Super Metroid "100% Map" as well. We as a community aren't going to find the same things entertaining. A game being "known" may lead to more entertainment value, yes. That's a part of it. That's always been a part of it. But that's nowhere near the biggest reason for a game being entertaining. Remember Magician Lord? Most people had never heard of that game before the TAS came in, and it ended up being one of the best TASes the site's ever seen. Same with things like Ivy the Kiwi or most Japan/Europe-only games that never make it stateside. Point is, we're not that shallow on what we find entertaining. If a game is entertaining to watch, then it's entertaining to watch. If it's not entertaining, then it's not entertaining. No amount of arguing is going to change anyone's mind on what they find entertaining. EDIT: #1801: Genisto's SNES Super Mario World "playaround" in 45:30.42 It's also entirely possible for a very, very, VERY well-known game to have a playaround rejected, as you can see here. So that should prove more than anything that the game itself has almost nothing to do with it. And on the subject of other playarounds, the Tekken 3 run is not a "shitty playaround". It's well-paced, fun to watch, and it doesn't overstay its welcome at all. It's roughly a third of the length of this run, and gets about as much done as this run does. Any published fighting game playaround should be the standard that others hope to achieve, they're the ones that the entire community approves of. What needs to be done in the face of this rejection, is to take the valid criticism received and put that into the making of another run, instead of just refusing/debating all criticism and trying to force us to like the run. Ironically, it's only making us hate it more, and making us lose more and more respect for you all. By the way: We have nothing to lose from people not submitting fighting game playarounds here, so it's not as big of a threat as you're making it out to be. Telling that whole community not to submit here also won't be much of a big deal either, since there aren't even that many submitting here in the first place. We're not losing members that we don't already have, and if the current members are just going to be disruptive and insulting, then perhaps it's for the better of the site to have you all leave.

i understand the site can't accept this run ,but at least you should consider the low quality of what has been accepted if these are the standards in the site instead.Nobody has anything to "lose" theoretically but this is the vault discussion all over again,people were discouraged from submitting or even making certain TASes of what is now accepted a vault run,because it wasn't interesting enough for people who gave zero cents about the game but we weren't really "losing' because the "boring" TASes weren't being made at all. The fact is the random internet user will come to tasvideos,eventually look for a garou superplay or speedrun,and find nothing,even though we had it submitted here.That's the loss. On SpeedDemosArchive.the people who judge the runs are people who know the game thoroughly or if it's too obscure, at least casually.A lot of judging used to go slow for more obscure games because it's hard to find people familiar with the possibilities.If you don't know the game,you're not part of the decision.

@Samsara What do I just need to be banned by you? Because by what I noticed I can't defender myself or further, the words have hurt you too much. Feel free to ban me anytime, I really don't care about it. Do it right now because won't be this your position as " judge" that will make me hold back of my way of thinking. Don't threat me, if I'm on your target, So pull the trigger. Defending ourselves against these arguments is considered a kind of insult. Sorry! That's definitely nonsense "judge"! This conversation got old hat for me.

grassini: What makes you think I don't know the game "at least casually"? I specifically judged this run as opposed to some of the other judges because I am familiar with the game. I've watched nearly all the fighting TASs on the site. I personally don't think this one is as entertaining as our better fighting TASs. Since I find the entertainment level borderline at best, I defer to the feedback. The feedback for this run was negative. I think that's clear when you see the amount of posts saying it was repetitive or didn't have anything interesting like we see in some other fighting playarounds. This run also got more no votes than yes votes. So I don't see what objective criteria allows this movie to be published.

On SpeedDemosArchive.the people who judge the runs are people who know the game thoroughly or if it's too obscure, at least casually.A lot of judging used to go slow for more obscure games because it's hard to find people familiar with the possibilities.If you don't know the game,you're not part of the decision.

This would be logistically impossible for TASVideos for multiple reasons (including size of community, obscurity of games, and tighter verification checks). Besides which, that still would not fix audience response, nor cause anything else magical to happen that would make this movie a better choice for publication than it is now.

@Samsara What do I just need to be banned by you? Because by what I noticed I can't defender myself or further, the words have hurt you too much. Feel free to ban me anytime, I really don't care about it. Do it right now because won't be this your position as " judge" that will make me hold back of my way of thinking. Don't threat me, if I'm on your target, So pull the trigger. Defending ourselves against these arguments is considered a kind of insult. Sorry! That's definitely nonsense "judge"! This conversation got old hat for me.

Please stop acting so overly dramatic. Nobody has talked about banning anyone, and Samsara has no authority of banning people from the site (that is not a judge's job). What Samsara said is that if you do not want to submit here or be here, then it is your own choice to leave.

i understand the site can't accept this run ,but at least you should consider the low quality of what has been accepted if these are the standards in the site instead.Nobody has anything to "lose" theoretically but this is the vault discussion all over again,people were discouraged from submitting or even making certain TASes of what is now accepted a vault run,because it wasn't interesting enough for people who gave zero cents about the game but we weren't really "losing' because the "boring" TASes weren't being made at all.

What is there of "low quality" that we need to reconsider? If any run passes a Judge, then it isn't low quality in tech. If any run makes it to Moons by passing the audience, then it isn't low quality in entertainment. Maybe one or two runs slipped through the cracks before we had rule changes and when we had a different staff of Judges, but in general there is nothing of universal "low quality" on the site. If you mean in terms of entertainment, then as we've been saying this entire argument, entertainment is 100% subjective, which is why we actually use the audience voting system as an accurate measure of what everyone finds entertaining. What you think is low quality is different than what I think is low quality. It's different than what everyone else thinks is low quality. I've never really liked a Metroid or Doom run, but even if I voted on them I would just be one single Meh vote in a sea of Yes votes, and ultimately my voting "contribution" would be ignored when it comes time to judge the overall entertainment value of the run. That's the way it works. When a run collects several Meh votes or No votes, then we have to listen to them, because this is a group of people agreeing that something is not entertaining. I may not enjoy these runs, but I would never deny that they are high quality. I would never actively fight/insult people based on what they think of a run's entertainment value. I would never just deny someone's opinion because they didn't like something that I did. That's what sociopaths do.

The fact is the random internet user will come to tasvideos,eventually look for a garou superplay or speedrun,and find nothing,even though we had it submitted here.That's the loss.

Let's be real. If someone wants to watch a Garou TAS, the first place they'll go is YouTube. I don't even think members of this site actually search the site itself to watch a particular TAS, and I'm basing this off the several suggestions we've gotten to refine/redo the site search "engine". Most people don't even watch TASes unless they're encoded anyway, it's just far easier to look on YouTube if there's one you really want to watch. This is also assuming that there are people out there who would actually find the site looking specifically for a Garou TAS, and would actually be so pissed off that we didn't have one published that they would leave and never return. I don't see that happening more than maybe once in the entire lifetime of the site. Most rational people would stick around and see what else we have to offer. Plus, they'd find the submission if they looked here. So I don't understand your argument in two separate-but-equal ways.

On SpeedDemosArchive.the people who judge the runs are people who know the game thoroughly or if it's too obscure, at least casually.A lot of judging used to go slow for more obscure games because it's hard to find people familiar with the possibilities.If you don't know the game,you're not part of the decision.

This is a horrible way to go about judging the way that we do, and that boils down to one simple reason: SDA judges only technical quality. Experts on the game are more knowledgeable about whether or not a run is technically superior and/or legitimate, so it makes a lot of sense for them to pull out judges from the crowd. We don't just judge on tech quality. We judge on entertainment value as well. If we pulled in fans of a game just to judge it, there is going to be inherent bias in their decision. We can't have inherently biased Judges, because that leads to bad decisions. And that's not to mention that our Judges need to have considerable knowledge of whether or not the TAS itself is top-tier quality. Plus, the entire decision on whether or not a playaround is entertaining enough to make it is based on the audience reaction, which will absolutely include people who know the game and people who find it entertaining. This run has Yes votes, there are people in the thread who find it entertaining. However, there are also avid fighting game fans who did not find it entertaining. This should be telling enough, shouldn't it? An entire crowd of people can't all be wrong, unless they're at a Trump rally or a Klan meeting. The most important people in determining the entertainment value of a playaround/game are actually the people who have no knowledge of the game whatsoever. I would give much more weight to a voter who says "I've never heard of this game, but this was such a great run. Yes!" as opposed to "I PLAY THIS GAME EVERY DAY AND IT IS THE BEST GAME AND YES I VOTE YES BECAUSE I LOVE THIS GAME". TASes should have universal audience appeal to make it to Moons, or to even make it onto the site in the first place in certain situations. Like I said, this run is perfect for a fighting game community, but when it's placed here, it's at the mercy of the TASing/speedrunning community as a whole. If you want everyone who watches the run to know about the game, find a Garou community and post it there. So, with all this in mind, what you're asking is patently ridiculous. We can't possibly have a team that knows every game that gets submitted, and even if we have members of the community that ARE extremely knowledgeable, they likely haven't shown the proper amount of technical proficiency in their own TASes (if they've even made/attempted any) to warrant bringing them on to judge, and it makes no sense to even do things that way in the first place. SDA Judges are volunteers picked from the community who are known to have considerable knowledge of the specific games and runs they are judging. TASVideos Judges are a staff position, a position of minor power, a position that requires knowledge of TASing in general as opposed to specific games. The position itself isn't based on how much I know about Castlevania or how much Nach knows about Super Metroid or what Tompa knows about Legend of Zelda or what Maria knows about Pokemon. It's not about what Truncated knows about Doom or what Moth knows about Mega Man or what adelikat knows about killing his family. It's about what we all know about TASing over years of experience and producing runs of all different kinds. We have our own ideas about what's entertaining and what isn't, but we are not Judges of entertainment. You are. The rest of the audience is. If that doesn't explain things, then I don't know what else to tell you.

i reached darknoob for sync settings and recorded it, you can sync verify this if you want to

I do. Please, share the settings!

Alright, we have worked the sync out. I've found the TAS quite entertaining. The game is dynamic and variative, and both of these qualities are highly demonstrated in this TAS. A big accent is put into playaround with both 2nd player and CPU. I haven't found any fights boring. Even a draw round by time out was fun to watch. Yes vote.

This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [6199] Arcade Garou: Mark of the Wolves "playaround" by Dark_Noob in 19:30.60