F-Zero Queen-Grand Prix (Expert Level)

Building off of the knowledge from the first circuit I did, roughly 2 months ago, I now have the Queen's League Circuit available. The learning curve was much less this time and allowed for me to focus on the techniques not previously used in the last TAS. It is my pleasure to now present you with my newest movie. Once again, thanks to EdwardFourZero6 and Psicoh for their help of understanding this game. Additional thanks goes to Sniq and EternisedDragon (Aran;Jaeger) because of their push for me to cut frames til something was found.

Goal

After making the Knight League TAS, it occurred to me that there are 3 ways to time this game. They are as follows:
  • In-Game Time (IGT)
  • Real-Time (Fastest Credits)
  • Fewest Inputs (TAS Timing)
Here, a combination of all the methods where used. IGT for laps 1 through 4, Real-Time for lap 5...which cuts out bonus recognition time, and the last lap of the last track...where I let off the accelerator until I can no longer hold the IGT for that lap.

Terminology

  • Golden Fox - The fastest accelerating vehicle on the circuit.
  • Blue Falcon - The second fastest accelerating vehicle on the circuit, with a little more top speed than the Golden Fox.
  • Wild Goose - The third fastest accelerating vehicle, with higher top speed than the blue Falcon.
  • Fire Stingray (Car of Choice for this TAS) - The slowest accelerating vehicle, with the highest top speed of the available cars for racing.
  • Brown Cars - Also known as CPU RNG obstacles. These cars can be of massive aggravation and costly of lap times. Usually, they cost anywhere from 1/4 of frame to 2 frames to avoid them. In one situation, 6 frames were lost... but recovered by re-TASing earlier parts to avoid RNG for that terrible situation.
  • Super Jet - On the completion of each lap, the driver is reward a super jet, which when used...moves the car from its capped speed to 562 as the highest. It cycles from 562 to 478 for 4.25 seconds.
  • Brake Tapping - Refers to a technique, for when super jets are used, to gain greater speed by manually cycling the speed back up to 562 as fast as possible. This is done by braking at a certain speed to eliminate the lower part of the super jet speed cycle so that your car is running at speeds on the top end more. The result, is about 4 frames cut per lap.
  • Blast Tapping - Refers to when the accelerator is released to allow your car to make tighter turns. This coincides with a slippage value and prevents it from reaching the maximum value. Basically, it keeps your car stuck to the ground and prevents you from loosing traction and thus keeping your speed up.
  • Wall Tapping - This is a term that I came up with, that is used to help cycle the super jet speed correctly so that the timing is fixed to maximize the use for when traversing dirt of borders.
  • Practice Mode - The game offers a player the ability to race a single track. This usually is accompanied by the selection of an opponent. The choice of your opponent can determine greater speeds...in most cases, Golden Fox is used to get the highest speed boost and used most often.
  • Grand Prix Mode - The game is normally played with through one of three leagues...known as Knight, Queen, and King leagues. This TAS features the second league.

Tools Used

  • Lua Script (For determining optimized inputs on turns and super jet usage during brake tapping, creating car placement values for determining if changes were moving me ahead of behind, and vectoring...since it was near impossible to determine with precision where you are headed)
  • RAM Watch (The need for super jet timing, subpixel placement, and speed changes)
  • LSNES Emulator

F-Zero TASing

Again...I have to say, that I believe the reason why no TAS has ever been produced of this game in a full league, is the extreme dedication that it takes in order to produce high quality times. So far, the only full Grand Prix TAS available was submission 5576. During the making of this, I still can see the reason why this never happened before. During the past 2 months of TASing, there were times again that I wanted to give up. The idea of cleaning up and optimizing was so painful that I had to walk away...only this time, it was easier to deal with. It is worth noting that the WR found on http://fzerocentral.org are all IGT related. Some are from practice rounds, while some are from Grand Prix runs. Understand that practice mode runs, where the Golden Fox is used for speed bumping, it impossible to beat on the first lap with and Grand Prix.

Track Details

Mute City 2 (1st Track of the Queen Grand Prix circuit)

1st Lap: Best effort is to use Blue Falcon for a double speed boost, since a Blue Falcon/Wild Goose boost is about 15 frames slower at the finish line. It is also worth noting that it is impossible to use the Golden Fox for speed boost here, as it is too far to the right to reach. Lastly, the two ramps are used to get my speed up to 478.
2nd Lap: Right after the finish line, the Fire Stingray cuts a corner where it gets hit. The drop of speed is acceptable, since the space it cut is easily made up before the next turn and worth the effort. Here also starts the use of my first super jet where we cut the dirt to quickly get going again at high speed...taking advantage of a larger part of the track being cut without the effect of losing speed.
3rd Lap: Same as 2nd
4th Lap: Same as 3rd
5th Lap: Changes up a bit on where the super jet is used. Basically, it is used as in the same manner as Legend's RTA Practice run...called dirt cutting. Mainly, because it would be a waste to be speeding across the finish line with extra speed. So, we take it back a bit and use it through the dirt.
Finish Line strategy: Since this TAS was designed for Real-Time, coming in 2nd place allows us to cut time from the celebration cut scene. In this case, it was about 50 frames eliminated.
End Results:
TAS Legend's (IGT-Grand Prix)
0'26”25 0'26”34
0'23”50 0'23”61
0'23”43 0'23”58
0'23”43 0'23”56
0'24”02 0'23”52
Total
2'00”63 2'00”61

Port Town 1 (2nd Track of the Queen Grand Prix circuit)

1st Lap: Because of the quick approaching double ramps, a double speed bump was required of the Blue Falcon / Wild Goose. This was the track that I eventually figured out some information over the slight advantage that Master Level has over Expert Level. According to the WR of EdwardFourZero6, the second speed bump occurs much quicker than is possible for Expert Level. So here, the first lap does not have the run away time as the following laps will show.
2nd Lap: Super jet usage starts, but is held off until the "BIG" jump across the track. Super Jet usage starts the frame of first movement, after the game resets the car's position. This retraction occurs because you missed a checked point. According to EdwardFourZero6, this cut saves about 1.5 seconds RTA, but seems to be a bit more with this TAS.
3rd Lap: Same as 2nd lap
4th Lap: Same as 3rd lap, except cars finally show up.
5th Lap: Cars show up in abundance finally.
Finish Line Strategy: Same concept is used to come in 2nd place, although the cut was around 68 frames. The Wild Goose was stuck extremely close in this case.
End Results:
TAS EdwardFourZero6 (IGT-Grand Prix)
0'21'55 0'21”63
0'18”23 0'18”42
0'18”22 0'18”40
0'18”23 0'18”41
0'18”57 0'18”42
Total
1'34”80 1'35”28
  • Note: The frame count was the same for laps 2,3, and 4...but because of the game timer, it alternates between 1/100 and 2/100...giving a alternation of time.

Red Canyon I (3rd Track of the Queen Grand Prix circuit)

1st Lap: Same situation applies here as 1st track. The need of double speed boosting from the Blue Falcon. First lap shows to be quite difficult, as super tight cornering throws off the optimal route. As with this lap and the remaining ones, a large jump over the track is made.
2nd Lap: Early in the lap, car avoidance presents itself,but dedicated TASing prevails to keep from loosing time. Super jet usage starts, and is able to cut corners at high speed while not loosing that speed.
3rd Lap: Freedom to perform the optimal route finally occurs in the first part of the track. Because of recovery hardships in the past two laps...you'll notice that corners are being clipped to save time. This was due to the angle of my approach to some places.
4th Lap: Perfect RNG provides the best route.
5th Lap: Same as lap 4, except the ending allowed 2 frames more than normal to keep from loosing 6+...due to different car RNG placements near the last turn.
Finish Line Strategy: Same concept is used to come in 2nd place. The cut was around 52 frames.
End Results:
TAS EdwardFourZero6 (IGT-Grand Prix)
0'22”57 0'22”70
0'19”76 0'19”96
0'19”75 0'19”98
0'19”76 0'19”95
0'20”35 0'19”97
Total
1'42”19 1'42”56
  • Note: The frame count was also the same for laps 2,3, and 4 (as in track 2)...but because of the game timer, the same situation applied to the differences of times.

White Land I (4th Track of the Queen Grand Prix circuit)

1st Lap: A very unique situation occurs in the first lap that gave me a very good route change...due to a 3 car speed bump. It occurred in the following order: Blue Falcon / Wild Goose / Golden Fox. Basically, the CPU takes the long route around a corner and this TAS takes advantage of cutting through the undesirable track surface. This diminishes the speed, but is quickly recovered by the high accelerating sped of the Golden Fox.
2nd Lap: A TAS only trick is now demonstrated here where our car taps the wall to avoid the ramps, while traversing the dirt bars. This helps to maintain our super jet speed, which is initiated right after cutting through the speed slowing track surface and border. After all this, precise jumping delivers a large jump across the inside part of the track.
3rd Lap: Same as 2nd lap
4th Lap: Same as 3rd lap
5th Lap: Same as 4th lap...finishes out with no RNG problems for re-routing.
Finish Line Strategy: The same type of "Rubber-Banding" is done to cut 36 frames.
End Results:
TAS EdwardFourZero6 (IGT-Practice Mode)
0'24”98 0'24”76
0'22”29 0'22”53
0'22”29 0'22”56
0'22”29 0'22”50
0'23”11 0'22”49
Total
1'54”96 1'54”84
  • Note: The frame count was also the same for laps 2,3, and 4 (as in track 3)...but because of the game timer, the same situation applied to the differences of times. Edwards TAS was shown for comparison on the optimization level of my inputs.

White Land II (5th and final track of the Queen Grand Prix circuit)

1st Lap: Same speed boosting as used in tracks 1, and 3.
2nd Lap: Super jet usage starts, and is able to cut borders at high speed while not loosing that speed. Car avoidance costed two frames here.
3rd Lap: Same as 2nd lap
4th Lap: Same as 3rd lap
5th Lap: Same as 4th lap
Finish Line Strategy: Nothing special here...just needing to finish the TAS by crossing the finish line at the highest in-game time possible....meaning that I cut off frames until I could hold the same time when crossing the finish line.
End Results:
TAS EdwardFourZero6 (IGT-Grand Prix)
0'28”25 0'28”47
0'24”18 0'24”60
0'24”19 0'24”52
0'24”17 0'24”42
0'24”19 0'24”51
Total
2'04”98 2'06”52

Nach: Sorry for the delay on this, I was busy with another submission for a while.
I find the quality on this circuit to be much like the previous run I judged, and the audience response similar. I am accepting to Moons for the same reason.
Once TASs are available for all circuits, it might make sense to hex edit them together. We would accept a single TAS which does all the circuits in a single run and use it to obsolete single circuits.
thecoreyburton: Processing.

TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #5633: nymx's SNES F-Zero "Queen League" in 11:27.87
Spikestuff
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I'm going to be reiterating my point again (and extending it cause fsvgm and Warepire aren't online). This is only one circuit out of all the circuits so again... This feels like a bum-rush when we have other racers that completes everything milking it dry. My vote will most likely be Meh once again... as once again this only completes a single circuit. Scratch that. My vote is No. You're aiming for second place again. I'd rather watch the Mario Kart TASes than watch this cause they actually get first.
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Nymx is amazing. Good job man!
Challenger
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Well, I liked this run, but I agree completely with Spikestuff!
My homepage --Currently not much motived for TASing as before...-- But I'm still working.
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Awesome job, once again! I knew that you were going to get some major air on the three consecutive jumps in Red Canyon I. I knew you were going to do something cool with the long section of jumps and magnets in White Land I. I have hit the jump on the other side of the massive chasm in White Land II (by going into the first jump too slow), but I had forgotten about that, so that second jump was surprising. But what was absolutely shocking was the huge shortcut in Port Town I, which you didn't talk about at all in your Twitch video!
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A comment on the Twitch Stream: You can use a Verification Movie file to unlock Master Difficulty. Then submit a TAS that plays on Master Difficulty. The Verification movie file, does not have to be optimized at all. It just needs to get the game to unlock Master Difficulty.
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nymx
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hopper wrote:
Awesome job, once again!
Thanks, it certainly was fun and frustrating to create.
hopper wrote:
But what was absolutely shocking was the huge shortcut in Port Town I, which you didn't talk about at all in your Twitch video!
I actually did, but what you were seeing is the 3rd run through of my stream. I only highlighted the last run through. Sorry. Basically, that jump crossed a check point and forced me to figure out how to optimize a way of getting to the check point faster...so that I don't have to wait for the CPU to do it. It basically saved a little more than 1.5 seconds.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
nymx
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hegyak wrote:
A comment on the Twitch Stream: You can use a Verification Movie file to unlock Master Difficulty. Then submit a TAS that plays on Master Difficulty. The Verification movie file, does not have to be optimized at all. It just needs to get the game to unlock Master Difficulty.
Thanks for your comment hegyak. Bascially, TASVideos doesn't accept that ... even if it was not tampered with to cheat the game. This sites restriction on this can be viewed at: http://tasvideos.org/MovieRules.html#WeDoNotAllowSaveAnchoredMovies
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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So you have just worked 2 month on this cup, the last one will also take about that long to make then, so why don't you finish all 3 cups first before submitting? There's no reason, you aren't lazy either then you would needed more time to do the run. It's probably just the philosophy of streamers to produce as much content in little time as possible to get attention.
submission text wrote:
I have to say, that I believe the reason why no TAS has ever been produced of this game in a full league, is the extreme dedication that it takes in order to produce high quality times.
2 month work for a 11 minute long hard to make run sounds like a joke to me, but it's only me so others see it different. Do I find it entertaining? Yes. Do I want it published? No. Submit a file that completes all 3 cups. And don't come with "long runs are hard to watch", it's illogical, some people would be entertained by watching paint dry others would find 40 minutes of F-Zero entertaining, and you shouldn't focus on pleasing your audience, your first goal is to make a TAS of good quality. And there isn't anything that would stop the viewer from pausing the video an continue watching later, if they're mentally unable to do so, hands down, you then made a very entertaining run.
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nymx
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Challenger wrote:
Well, I liked this run, but I agree completely with Spikestuff!
Thank you Challenger. At times, it was so consuming to find cuts and better routes to make this as fast as possible. In regards to the 2nd place, this meets the requirements of beating the game with the fast Real-Time effort. In the publication of my last TAS, the following was stated at the time of acceptance:
Nach wrote:
This was a nice entertaining TAS. It correctly aimed to complete the game as fast as possible, skipping bonus recognition. Just like in Super Mario Bros. fireworks are skipped, and in Super Mario Bros. 3 three of a kind stars are skipped, this skipped the first place fanfare for each level. Overall fastest speed requires some sacrifices in the earlier levels, and this TAS did exactly what TASs should do. I find making separate TASs for each of the circuits to be acceptable. I am accepting this run as an improvement to the existing incomplete one.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
nymx
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TASeditor wrote:
So you have just worked 2 month on this cup, the last one will also take about that long to make then, so why don't you finish all 3 cups first before submitting?
Yes, in reality...the previous TAS took about 1 1/2 months. The 5 months was basically from the very beginning, where I kept discovering things about making it faster. It was then, after learning enough, I started to get moving towards completing the movie. With this TAS, it took more effort...yet I had a lot of experience in how to approach it more effectively. The challenges in this one were more extreme...in fact, more than I anticipated. The new items were learning how to optimally jump and get past the gravity bars, but the routing and traversing tight corners were definitely something to rework a lot over. As stated in my previous post, Nach has declared that the creation of 3 separate TASes (one for each league) is acceptable.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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nymx wrote:
hegyak wrote:
A comment on the Twitch Stream: You can use a Verification Movie file to unlock Master Difficulty. Then submit a TAS that plays on Master Difficulty. The Verification movie file, does not have to be optimized at all. It just needs to get the game to unlock Master Difficulty.
Thanks for your comment hegyak. Bascially, TASVideos doesn't accept that ... even if it was not tampered with to cheat the game. This sites restriction on this can be viewed at: http://tasvideos.org/MovieRules.html#WeDoNotAllowSaveAnchoredMovies
I assure you that we do accept what hegyak wrote. In fact, you very kindly provided me the citation that I was going to provide you:
However, there are certain games with unlockable modes, second quests, or other things of interest that can only be accessed if a save file (or an otherwise "dirty" SRAM) is present. If you really wish to submit a movie made on such a mode, you will need a verification movie made and provided alongside it. Any input file that starts from power-on (for example, a previously submitted movie for that game) and creates the exact circumstances for your submission to sync will generally do.
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I sure hope that TASVideos accepts save anchored movies otherwise my Maximum Velocity Grand Prix Master TAS is screwed.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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i'd also prefer a full complete TAS,i wonder if you can hex edit the whole thing together but i'd probably guess you can't. I hope it still gets published.
TAS i'm interested: megaman series: mmbn1 all chips, mmx3 any% psx glitched fighting games with speed goals in general
Noxxa
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nymx wrote:
Thanks for your comment hegyak. Bascially, TASVideos doesn't accept that ... even if it was not tampered with to cheat the game. This sites restriction on this can be viewed at: http://tasvideos.org/MovieRules.html#WeDoNotAllowSaveAnchoredMovies
Memory wrote:
I sure hope that TASVideos accepts save anchored movies otherwise my Maximum Velocity Grand Prix Master TAS is screwed.
We do accept save-anchored movies, and the movie rule quoted clearly states as much (if you read beyond the title). The only caveats are you're required to provide a verification file, and it's only allowed for unlockable modes or such things. (And the Vault rules forbid them, but that's only for the Vault)
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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Overall, I liked what I saw on your Twitch channel. Beyond simply exhibiting swift completion of the Queen Course, you also added spoken commentary to explain a few things along the way. I would be delighted to see this movie with captioned commentary paraphrasing what you explained in your Twitch video.
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Nymx, I love your work, but I'd rather see speed/entertainment tradeoffs that have you winning your races.
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Great work on the TAS, taking the shortcuts as tight as possible and discovering some new strats. I can't wait for you to tackle down those brutal tracks in King League as well. Yes vote
nymx
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electricslide wrote:
Nymx, I love your work
Thank you electricslide. I knew that this league was going to be much more to watch than my previous TAS. I'm rather anxious about how the King League will be.
electricslide wrote:
I'd rather see speed/entertainment trade-offs that have you winning your races.
As for this, I'm sorry that 2nd disappoints so many people. Yet, it satisfies so many things that are done in RTA (but with extreme execution) and some that human can't accomplish. Some are as follows: 1. It provides a comparison to how humans approach this game. 2. For this league, is cuts almost 4 seconds, by coming in 2nd place. 3. Good 2nd place cuts are not possible for humans on certain tracks. Since Fzerocentral.org shows times that are individually track related...league records are not shown. If I remember correctly, Red Canyon I and White Land I are won at 1st place..since the margin is so much smaller that they could loose time instead of gaining.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
nymx
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E-Dragon wrote:
Great work on the TAS, taking the shortcuts as tight as possible and discovering some new strats. I can't wait for you to tackle down those brutal tracks in King League as well. Yes vote
Thank you E-Dragon. Finally glad to find out who you are. I thank you and your brother for the comments and appreciation. King League? Oh yeah...that one is going to be tough. :)
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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For the same reasons as Spikestuff, I vote no.
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I'd prefer if a F-Zero TAS completed all the circuits, and also aimed for first place. Abstaining.
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I rather watch fast TASes than slow ones. Fastest way is to finish 2nd. Voting yes for aiming for speed over entertainment.
creaothceann
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...but you were entertained by less speed though...
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Fog wrote:
I'd prefer if a F-Zero TAS completed all the circuits, and also aimed for first place. Abstaining.
Same here.