I am creating a TAS for this game. I have the RTA record in this game and I was so eager to see a TAS that I decided to learn how to TAS and take a crack at it myself. This WIP goes through the first 8 levels in this game (there are 12 in total). This game has quite a few tricks up its sleeve which I largely found during my time doing RTA runs and we can really take full advantage of those tricks in a TAS setting.
Link to video
Looks solid for a first tas. I've got some questions, though:
0:37 and 8:13 - Why can't you damage boost or sing your way past the guy at the ledge?
7:56 - After getting the key can you just fall to the left to avoid grabbing the pole and then moving right?
9:24 - It looks like you can maybe wait about 10 frames for the ogre to fall down instead of jumping. Does it take longer than that before you can run past him without him damaging you? Also is it possible to jump over the swinging rock at its lowest point?
Looks solid for a first tas. I've got some questions, though:
0:37 and 8:13 - Why can't you damage boost or sing your way past the guy at the ledge?
7:56 - After getting the key can you just fall to the left to avoid grabbing the pole and then moving right?
9:24 - It looks like you can maybe wait about 10 frames for the ogre to fall down instead of jumping. Does it take longer than that before you can run past him without him damaging you? Also is it possible to jump over the swinging rock at its lowest point?
0:37: You get pretty much get no iframes if you get hit by the troll. This game has a weird thing where the amount of damage iframes you get differs from whether you hit a bigger enemy or a smaller enemy/projectile. You also only have your default song which does not do anything to enemies.
8:13: You do get more iframes from the rocks the troll throws but you just barely don't have enough to climb up. I did find just now that you can use the hedgehog to take out the troll using a specific setup but it is going to be rather complex for me to go back and implement as I will have to edit multiple parts of the level. I'll see if I can implement it in the final run, it saves a decent amount of time.
7:56: you can't pick up the key if you are too far away from it while in the picking up animation. You can't drop off a ledge and pick up a key at the same time. I did try sing dropping off that ledge but it actually ended up being a frame slower. Pip dropping is faster and with the Pip section skip at the end of the level I talked about earlier, it would be the way to go. I just didn't do it in this the WIP as Pip was needed in the final section but I'll see if I can implement it in the final run.
9:24: we crouch as that allows you to go under the troll. Walking gets you killed very quickly, same with jumping. Giselle has a weirdly large hurtbox, making enemies more annoying to avoid than they should be. It is not possible to jump over the swinging rock, deceptively big hitbox.
7:56: you can't pick up the key if you are too far away from it while in the picking up animation. You can't drop off a ledge and pick up a key at the same time. I did try sing dropping off that ledge but it actually ended up being a frame slower. Pip dropping is faster and with the Pip section skip at the end of the level I talked about earlier, it would be the way to go. I just didn't do it in this the WIP as Pip was needed in the final section but I'll see if I can implement it in the final run.
9:24: we crouch as that allows you to go under the troll. Walking gets you killed very quickly, same with jumping. Giselle has a weirdly large hurtbox, making enemies more annoying to avoid than they should be. It is not possible to jump over the swinging rock, deceptively big hitbox.
So at 7:56 I mean to simply hold left after you fall off the edge so that you don't grab the pole.
At 9:24 What I'm really asking is, "How long does it take once the ogre gets hit before you can walk past it without taking damage?
So at 7:56 I mean to simply hold left after you fall off the edge so that you don't grab the pole.
At 9:24 What I'm really asking is, "How long does it take once the ogre gets hit before you can walk past it without taking damage?
7:56. I see. That wouldn't work out well because you would fall down far enough to trigger the birds which slows you down (both horizontally and vertically) and it uses up a music note. Losing out on the note was not too significant but the slowdown from the birds is very significant. It wouldn't have been worth it. I am incorporating my new strat in the final TAS so a Pip drop (Dropping off a ledge with the chipmunk) will be used in that spot in the finished TAS.
9:24 It's only a few frames or so but the problem in that situation is that if you are walking or jumping, you get hit long before the Troll does. Crouching allows you to avoid taking damage from the troll for much longer. In a RTA run, we get a damage boost of the stone in that section, which is faster. The reason I didn't do that in the TAS is because the damage boosts I did earlier in the level save more time and you don't have any more health to do more damage boosts.
9:24 It's only a few frames or so but the problem in that situation is that if you are walking or jumping, you get hit long before the Troll does. Crouching allows you to avoid taking damage from the troll for much longer. In a RTA run, we get a damage boost of the stone in that section, which is faster. The reason I didn't do that in the TAS is because the damage boosts I did earlier in the level save more time and you don't have any more health to do more damage boosts.
We’re getting closer, lol. What I’m saying is to simply stay crouched while the ogre is dying. It looks like you have about 10 frames you can spend waiting before the rock comes back to hurt you. Hopefully the ogre’s hit box will go away fast enough that you can continue past without wasting a bunch of time with that extra jump.
We’re getting closer, lol. What I’m saying is to simply stay crouched while the ogre is dying. It looks like you have about 10 frames you can spend waiting before the rock comes back to hurt you. Hopefully the ogre’s hit box will go away fast enough that you can continue past without wasting a bunch of time with that extra jump.
There is pretty much no other way around it. Those rocks are very explicitly designed for you to crouch under them. You can’t jump over them, you can’t walk through them, you very much have to crouch under them. The rock can also easily snipe you off the ledge as you have to wait a bit before you can do anything on the ledge. The rocks have stupidly big hitboxes and they are harder to get around than they look. I found that you could get past the troll without crouching but you still have to crouch under the rock, and you still have to wait for the same rock cycle before you can safely climb up.
While it may not look like it, the crouch under the troll and the jump after the rock were done on the latest/earliest possible frame respectively (this game has deceptively weird hitboxes). The last jump was also performed as early as possible. You can’t get up from the crouch either because you go through a long animation to get back up if you don’t jump. It takes way to long to crawl long enough so the jump will reach the edge (I tested this without crouching under the troll), the rock snipes you straight away. Even if you get past the troll faster, you still have to wait for the same rock cycle (as you hit the button long before the troll can hit you) so you wouldn’t be saving any time. I did look into it but there was simply no way it could really be sped up.
I have finished the final TAS. I could not find any improvements for that section but I did manage to improve other areas in the run.
