This topic is for the purpose of discussing #10451: thegugafá's Saturn Thunder Force V in 24:24.739

This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [7195] Saturn Thunder Force V by thegugafá in 24:24.739

in your submission you say "I used the same strategy". i'm sure what strategy you are talking about, is it same as someone else TAS? your notes are way too short in my opinion, we don't know what RAM you look or things important or unique for this game. unless you just take over someone else TAS and do one improvement/optimization?

in your submission you say "I used the same strategy". i'm sure what strategy you are talking about, is it same as someone else TAS? your notes are way too short in my opinion, we don't know what RAM you look or things important or unique for this game. unless you just take over someone else TAS and do one improvement/optimization?

https://tasvideos.org/10369S I used this strategy here I didn't use RAM Watch

You don't use ram watch for things like enemy hp or boss hp? How do you know your tas is optimized then?

You don't use ram watch for things like enemy hp or boss hp? How do you know your tas is optimized then?

I didn't go to check the enemy's HP As for the optimization I don't know how to explain in words what I did But I optimized this using only free range

For the types of games you tas it should be necessary to view the enemies or boss hp in ram watch. It isn't absolutely required, but still very convenient to have. I don't use ram watch too often myself and primarily rely on setting a lot of markers and trying a lot of different approaches. What i noticed in some of your submissions was your rerecord count. Im usually not that picky when it comes to a low rerecord count and i always believe in the Taser to have tried everything in their power to make their tas as optimal as possible. To me it looks like you didnt try a lot. I noticed this in your other submission as well where you didnt really provide information about the shops weapons. Just because the world record uses a good weapon doesnt mean that tas has to as well, there could always be better weapons that could be abused by tas.

agree with somyeol, looks there a several TAS submitted by thegugafa in short period, the optimization is questionable. Speedrunners come here in tasvideos dot org to find the most optimized run and also get more information. I feel it's a bit disapointing (or insulting?) to not have both

agree with somyeol, looks there a several TAS submitted by thegugafa in short period, the optimization is questionable. Speedrunners come here in tasvideos dot org to find the most optimized run and also get more information. I feel it's a bit disapointing (or insulting?) to not have both

It's because I really don't know how to explain it I'm not trying to insult anyone

It's because I really don't know how to explain it

if you have done some research or try different things to find the most optimize strategy, I'm sure you would have always something to say. for the "how to explain", I can understand there might be some language barrier, but you should be able to list all the different things you tried, the things that didn't work or some general knowledge. Most TAS publication would organize the notes by levels. have you looked at other TAS? here are some good examples: - https://tasvideos.org/8263S - https://tasvideos.org/10123S - https://tasvideos.org/7532S When you read those, there are no doubt they tried their best

Im usually not that picky when it comes to a low rerecord count

it's just a number that can be changed in the TAS file, so it's not something I look much at, especially if the taser do a brand new tas after several attempts

Speedrunners come here in tasvideos dot org to find the most optimized run and also get more information. I feel it's a bit disapointing (or insulting?) to not have both

I understand that here in TASVideos we do focus on optimization, but if a player attempts to TAS a game, we don't go and hammer them over why they didn't spend their life finding the most optimal strats. For a run to be acceptable, it must be reasonably optimized and doesn't look sloppy. Also, judges are there to verify these sort of things, so they do spend time trying to check what you mentioned before accepting or rejecting a run. We all start from somewhere and we do improve by time. About information, I can see the need for more details but again, it's up to the TASer themselves, and if necessary, judge will always require more information. This thread is there to ask questions about the run itself in case the author missed something or someone wants to understand something about the run, not to point at them why you don't do this or that. At the end of the day, the door is always open to improve other people's work.

Hey. I have some thoughts here. First and foremost, I stand by the decision made by nymx in accepting this movie. I trust his expertise when judging movies and I am certain he followed the steps we expect from our Judges. I will not discuss this further. For thegugafa, I think incorporating some more tools to your toolbox, even if you don't end up using them always, cannot be a bad thing. I haven't always needed to use things like RAM Watch or debuggers, but being aware of their use cases can help you find a TASing workflow that brings the best of your work. And regarding explanations, you are not expected to find everything out yourself. Any sources or prior art you can find is a shoulder to stand on, and will help make more sense of your own work. We all can look further by standing in the shoulders of giants. Finally, I would like to address the idea that RTA runners come to TASVideos for discoveries and reference: I like that! I am not opposed at all. Quite to the contrary, I have almost always when possible reached out to RTA runners and communities to get myself immersed in the existing knowledge before jumping in and doing things. And I believe this process can and should go both ways. If someone is dissatisfied with a specific movie, creative choice of an author, or other aspect of a movie, there is one thing that they can do that will always be a positive for the world: make their own TAS. I assure you, if you disagree with what this person made, you can make it your way. TASing is a creative process that I assure you, you can learn and enjoy. It may give you a further appreciation for the mechanical aspects of a game, it could provide you new knowledge and ideas to implement in your own real time gaming endeavours or game design sensibilities, it could just be plain fun! And even if you don't make it, welcoming those who do or try to is how you get them to listen to you, and how they and you get what you want: more, better TAS work.

I'm trusting nymx decision and it makes sense to not find everything or be the most perfect TAS. Looks like the community is less strict than before, which is nice because it opens more opportunities for beginner. Here I'm saying thegugafa has done several TAS the past days/weeks and most of their submissions have almost no notes or details about the game, the strategy, the source, the discoveries. Some of the submissions seem to focus on beating the RTA world record

For what it's worth I have very similar concerns as somyeol and arnaud33200 as well. But in saying that most shmups that I've watched from gugafá doesn't hit technical to me, mainly cause I don't have the knowledge. I do know if it was one that I would personally know I would be asking more questions about it, but I don't know Thunder Force V or Brave Blade like the back of my hand. And I know how the site operates cause it's operating the same way when I was still in Staff, so I'm fine with these being accepted since no one really challenged it*. It gains more eyes on them, and can lead to someone looking at it more if they have concerns with how the TAS is presented, much like being demonstrated here. *Even in saying this runs can still be challenged and accepted as an outcome even if you have demonstrated with evidence that a TAS is made sub-optimally. ^{Note: I'm not talking about this TAS as the reference/example since no one actually came in to talk about it before it was accepted.}

The more modern the console is, the harder it becomes to use standard tools like ram search/watch, due to pointer hell. Reading game code (and replicating it in lua) may be needed, and that bit is one of the hardest things in TASing.