Submission Text Full Submission Page Publication Page
This is a new Rockman TAS, mostly an update to the previous version though. Changes:
  • Cutman battle improved by 4 frames. Thanks to Vatchern!
  • Wily1-Wily4 (excluding Wily4 refights) improved by about 16 frames.
  • One more refill in Wily2. Costs 20 frames. Wins a couple of seconds in Wily4.
  • Bombman refight glitched, death. Resulting lots of gain. Other refights skipped totally. Thanks to Arne the Adjective and FinalFighter! (Thanks to Arne again for reminding me about FinalFighter's refined technique to this.)
    • New attribute: Uses death to save time.
90% of the last battle was played by BisqBot. I created a new algorithm core in the bot that simulated literally what a human would do in such situation; only saving lots of work. (Previous versions of BisqBot have always used random input combinations.)
AngerFist's contribution to this movie comes from his part in the previous version. He played the Gutsman fight and the Bombman fight (the first), and he prevailed at luck manipulation in Cutman stage, and helped optimize a couple of rooms.
Ps: The rerecord count is arbitrary. At some point, it was going to say 6268371 -- somehow the value was accidentally copied from BisqBot's progress file. So I edited it manually.
  • Ah, indeed. BisqBot did play some parts of this movie. Specifically, the 14-frame improvement in Wily1 is thanks to BisqBot, and the Bombman refight escape technique was perfected by BisqBot. And of course, he manipulated the refills in Wily2 and beat CWU-01P. And, played 90% of Wily4 battle.
As for Bombman refight escape... I disassembled Bombman's AI entirely. That way, I knew exactly how to make it throw a bomb and how to make it jump a certain height of jump.
Edit: Submission file replaced! (15:52 --> 15:49)
Edit 2: Submission file replaced again! (15:49 --> 15:48)
Edit 3: Round numbers are nice. 56900 frames is the length now, making it 1289 frames (21.5 seconds) faster than the published movie.
Ps: This is a bigame movie. It completes on both Rockman (J) and Mega Man (U).
-- Bisqwit
adelikat: Impressive improvement, again. Accepting for publication.
Bisqwit: Thanks. I'll process this one myself :)

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Posted: 11/6/2006 11:49 PM
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TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 14873
Location: 127.0.0.1
This topic is for the purpose of discussing #1336: Bisqwit & AngerFist's NES Mega Man in 15:48.33
Posted: 11/6/2006 11:57 PM
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Sir_VG
He/Him
Player (39)
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 1911
Location: Floating Tower
Oh geezus, here we go again...
Taking over the world, one game at a time. Currently TASing: Nothing
Posted: 11/7/2006 12:14 AM
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Bablo
Player (223)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 399
Why did you use Japanese rom if the Wily fight was faster with USA rom?
<adelikat> I've been quoted with worse
Posted: 11/7/2006 12:15 AM
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Maximus
Emulator Coder, Former player
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 563
Location: Toronto, Ontario
very cool man. Even if you don't improve the last fight, i can't wait to vote yes :P
TAS Movie Editor v0-12-1 http://sourceforge.net/projects/tas-editor
Posted: 11/7/2006 12:20 AM
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Blublu
Player (67)
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjaví­k, Ísland
*falls off chair*
Posted: 11/7/2006 12:44 AM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away
Thanks for skipping the refights. Minus one boring moment in the movie. %)
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 11/7/2006 12:49 AM
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NecroVMX
Player (70)
Joined: 8/13/2004
Posts: 205
I'm abstainin. The game is so broken that it's barely watchable. Remember when speedruns were fun to watch becuase you saw someone playing hard games like Mega Man flawlessly? Now when people make speedruns they forget the "fun" and focus only on speed. So instead of something like, for example, morimoto's absolutely wonderful rockman 2 run where he destroyed the game by doing it lightning quick and not getting hit, which looks great, we get runs that just have rock zipping through walls at lightning speed, walking through enemies and glitching up the screen so badly that you can't tell what's going on. As far as I'm concerned this is the same category as glitched runs of zelda 2, zelda 3, castlevania circle of the moon and rygar.
Posted: 11/7/2006 1:10 AM
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anubis
Joined: 5/29/2006
Posts: 138
Uses death - didn't think that'd get in here :p This movie was almost 1337 - too bad it was just 1336.
Posted: 11/7/2006 1:12 AM
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shallow
Joined: 10/16/2006
Posts: 174
I can't get it to work for some reason, with either ROM. When I go to load both ROMs, I get a message saying their both the wrong ROM. I'm using FCEU 0.98.15 recording. What's the problem? Thanks.
Posted: 11/7/2006 1:15 AM
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CtrlAltDestroy
Active player (324)
Joined: 2/23/2005
Posts: 786
NecroVMX wrote:
I'm abstainin. The game is so broken that it's barely watchable. Remember when speedruns were fun to watch becuase you saw someone playing hard games like Mega Man flawlessly? Now when people make speedruns they forget the "fun" and focus only on speed.
What, you don't find horrendously glitched runs fun to watch? I certainly do. If you want to watch some runs that are more "normal", don't forget that all the old submissions are archived on this site, you can go view them if you want to. Also, there is SDA.
Posted: 11/7/2006 1:16 AM
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Thereisnospoon
Joined: 3/31/2005
Posts: 148
Location: Colorado
Not sure how this game continues to be improved, but I'm glad it is. Bisqwit: did you ever figure out why you see those ghost megamans during the iceman fight? Just wondering. Good work fellas. (voted yes)
Do not try to bend the spoon, that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth. What Truth? There is nospoon. Then you will see it is not the spoon that changes, it is only yourself
Posted: 11/7/2006 1:25 AM
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xoinx
Former player
Joined: 9/20/2006
Posts: 287
Location: Singapore
NecroVMX wrote:
I'm abstainin. The game is so broken that it's barely watchable. Remember when speedruns were fun to watch becuase you saw someone playing hard games like Mega Man flawlessly? Now when people make speedruns they forget the "fun" and focus only on speed. So instead of something like, for example, morimoto's absolutely wonderful rockman 2 run where he destroyed the game by doing it lightning quick and not getting hit, which looks great, we get runs that just have rock zipping through walls at lightning speed, walking through enemies and glitching up the screen so badly that you can't tell what's going on. As far as I'm concerned this is the same category as glitched runs of zelda 2, zelda 3, castlevania circle of the moon and rygar.
In a way, it's true that with more revisions and inclusions of time-saving bugs, we are deforming the games more and more in our TAS runs. I guess our proficiency at exploiting games now is giving us a headache on categorizing if the game is still a recognizably legit TAS or a conceptual demo. True, this run goes through every stage of the game, but not exactly as intended by the game designers. It is broken to the extent that the compulsary refights featured in every rockman/megaman game is totally by-passed... I am not sure if this is considered a full run with all the debate going on about concept demos and stuff. Still, the new discovery was magnificent and worth a YES.
Truncated wrote:
Truncated is the most fiendish instrument of torture ever devised to bedevil the days of man. -- xoinx
Posted: 11/7/2006 1:43 AM
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AceOfShades
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 83
Location: Basement
In some cases, I have to agree with NecroVMX. The Harmony of Dissonance run, for example, was so broken that there was no game left. On the other hand, the Sonic 3 run, while very thouroughly broken, was really cool as it was still pretty long and showed much of the game. Generally I like to see multiple runs: one that gets through the game more or less as intended by the programmers, and one that abuses every trick in the books. That said, watch some of the early versions of this run if you want to see a normalish play.
Posted: 11/7/2006 1:56 AM
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NecroVMX
Player (70)
Joined: 8/13/2004
Posts: 205
The Sonic 3+Knuckles run was pretty sweet even though I'd prefer if it wasn't SO broken, but it at least showed most of the game. probably the only part that irked me was completely skipping the ice cap zone
Posted: 11/7/2006 1:56 AM
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JXQ
Experienced player (750)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
NES TAS of 2008 Speedy TAS of 2008 SNES TASer of 2007 TAS of 2007 SNES TAS of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
It seems strange to me to submit a run if you are still trying to improve it.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 11/7/2006 2:04 AM
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Nibelung
Former player
Joined: 4/13/2006
Posts: 150
Location: Caratinga - MG - Brazil
Voting Meh I'm not a big fan of glitched speedruns, so i just abstend to vote.
Not more working on: DKC3 105% < Needs modified Nitsuja Snes9x+9, with reset recording.
Posted: 11/7/2006 2:24 AM
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Zalien
Joined: 1/10/2005
Posts: 63
I vote yes, it was very interesting to see some new glitches, like the bomb man re-fight one. Glitched runs for the win!
Posted: 11/7/2006 2:36 AM
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adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3585)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4738
Location: Tennessee
TASer of 2010 NES TASer of 2010 DS TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 NES TASer of 2008 NES TAS of 2008 Funny TAS of 2008 TASer of 2007 NES TASer of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
Glad to see this one finished and submitted. Not only is it faster but major style points. "Hmm, these refights sure are boring, how can I make them interesting? Screw it, I will just glitch right past them :P" Yes vote of course.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Posted: 11/7/2006 2:36 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Active player (277)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Hmm, why is it that the Select-tapping to beat the second Wily form sounds faster at the end? Can you make it that speed the whole way through? Is that why you lost time?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 11/7/2006 3:15 AM
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theenglishman
Active player (441)
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 940
Location: Toronto, Canada
PSX TASer of 2013
ONOS Who will be the 1337 submission?
My current project: Something mysterious (oooooh!) My username is all lower-case letters. Please get it right :(
Posted: 11/7/2006 3:17 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Active player (277)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
I think no one.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 11/7/2006 4:19 AM
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Rising_Tempest
Player (166)
Joined: 4/27/2006
Posts: 304
Location: Eastern Canada
Pretty sneaky...
Posted: 11/7/2006 4:29 AM
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Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Active player (332)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
shallow wrote:
I can't get it to work for some reason, with either ROM. When I go to load both ROMs, I get a message saying their both the wrong ROM. I'm using FCEU 0.98.15 recording. What's the problem? Thanks.
I got the same problem, but I ran the movie anyway and there were no desyncs, so you're fine, I'm sure. Yeah, I loved the new method used to skip the refights, awesome work again
Posted: 11/7/2006 4:39 AM
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Timber
Joined: 11/5/2006
Posts: 7
Location: Sweden
Nibelung wrote:
I'm not a big fan of glitched speedruns[...]
I kind of agree with this. But still the run is very well performed and you seem to totally own the game. If I could vote, it would most probably be something in between YES and meh... if I could ever decide.
Posted: 11/7/2006 4:40 AM
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DonamerDragon
Player (104)
Joined: 6/7/2005
Posts: 290
Location: New York
BisqBot...I'm sorry but I don't like the idea of that tool. 6 Million...you know how long it would take a human to do that? Isn't a human suppose to be the one playing the game, not the program? Granted it does help with complicated stuff, but what's the fun in that? No one but that bot can play the game for randomness now, no one will get close. It's tool ASSISTED, not tool RELIED video...just my opinion.
Soft Blue Dragon
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