This is an improvement of 2,054 frames (34 seconds) over the published run. This time was gained through a new glitch in which Samus can travel across multiple rooms while in the background of the game. This trick is used to complete Kraid first, which also eliminates the need to collect any missile tanks. A secondary improvement was made in the statue room. Samus no longer has to wait for the enemy to defrost; she simply jumps through the ceiling from underneath.
Special thanks to
CtrlAltDestroy ― For making sense out of the trick I discovered. I was playing in real time when I found the glitch, and I really didn't understand what I had done. He made a much more optimized test run in which I could compare against. He is also responsible for the awesome trick in the statue room.
Moozooh ― Hooked me up with some nifty memory addresses, which were absolutely vital for the sections where Samus' sprite was not on the screen.
Zoizite ― For his run, which I compared a large chunk of mine to.
Spider-Waffle ― Discovered a way into Kraid's room by using the bug from the sand pit.
Everyone else who encouraged me to complete this run, especially Angerfist who reminded me on a semi daily basis ;)
Enjoy!
Bisqwit: Accepting as an improvement to "any%" run and taking for processing.
Wow I don't even get mentioned for contributing the trick into Kraid's liar. This run wouldn't exist without that trick.
Not bad, but I’m looking forward to a more optimized run in the future, which will include my trick I mentioned in the metroid forum which saves over two seconds.
About the escape being slower, it's because you were in the air, and fairly high, when you entered the door. As we all know you move slower in the air.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
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What did you contribute? I would gladly add it to the submission text. Just clarify it please.
Also that trick (which CtrlAltDestroy found 3 days before you mentioned it) doesn't save 2 seconds. I don't know where you pulled that figure from.
And would it be that difficult to say something positive about the run rather than complain? I didn't have to make the run at all.
The idea of getting inside of the red door and getting hit by the bug to go into Kraid’s lair was one I discovered over a year ago, and mentioned again on the metroid forum when you guys were stuck trying to find a way into Kraid’s Lair.
Also, CAD did not find the statue trick; someone else found that, you should probably thank them. CAD referenced it from the trick page.
I got the over two second figure from my own estimation.
I did say something positive and I didn’t complain about it. Do you seek my approval or something, or what are you so touchy about?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Also, CAD did not find the statue trick; someone else found that, you should probably thank them. CAD referenced it from the trick page.
The trick page only explains how the morph jump works, it was already being used in the TASes. I simply found an application for it that nobody else noticed.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
Spider-Waffle wrote:
Do you seek my approval or something, or what are you so touchy about?
Excuse me while I laugh out loud.
The bug trick was something incredibly obvious. You just happened to be one person who mentioned it *here*. I remember someone else talking about it on the M2K2 forum or it may have been the GameFaqs forum. By no means did you discover the glitch. I justed quoted you because you were the one who mentioned the trick on this forum.
You seem to think this run should be done for you and only the way you want it. You got upset when I said I would not be using the trick to appear under the ledge. Do you have any idea how much work goes into a TAS? By the time CtrlAltDestroy told me about it, I was way too far into the run. You tell me I should just start over to save 20-30 frames. Never once did you say a positive thing to me, so why exactly should I be thanking you?
Anyways, no hard feelings. Just remember these runs aren't produced solely for Spider-Waffle's pleasure.
The trick page only explains how the morph jump works, it was already being used in the TASes. I simply found an application for it that nobody else noticed.
If you, CAD, found that particular application of the trick then you should probably get credit. I didn’t realize that’s what happened, sorry.
The bug trick was something incredibly obvious. You just happened to be one person who mentioned it *here*. I remember someone else talking about it on the M2K2 forum or it may have been the GameFaqs forum. By no means did you discover the glitch. I justed quoted you because you were the one who mentioned the trick on this forum.
For the trick into Kraid’s room, I certainly did discover the trick, by myself, over a year ago and documented it about a year ago, if someone came out with before then, then by all means credit them, otherwise I should probably get credit.
You seem to think this run should be done for you and only the way you want it.
I can assure you this not what I think, your doing it, you can do the run however you want. I in no way feel you have to do the way the authors who make well optimized runs do theirs. I was just disappointed you weren’t.
You got upset when I said I would not be using the trick to appear under the ledge.
I can assure you I never get upset over what people decide to do in their speedrun, only disappointed. If you disappoint me please don’t take it personally.
Do you have any idea how much work goes into a TAS?
I know Zoizite did a metroid speedrun in two very long days he said, so about 24 hours and it was about as optimized as yours. You finished most of your run in about a week. So I have a pretty good idea. This does not seem like a lot of time to me. When you start to spend a year or more is when I start to get impressed with the time involved.
Never once did you say a positive thing to me,
I said your run wasn’t bad, which coming from me is most certainly a complement as I think most speedruns and TASes are bad. Also, I don't see why I should even have to say anything positive, how is that relevant to anything?
why exactly should I be thanking you?
You should be thanking me for finding, documenting, and telling you about a trick which let’s you get into Kraid early. Without this trick you would have no run. Now if you don’t like me, fine, but if you have any class you give credit were credit is due. If someone found it before me, then credit them.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
It isn't a matter of class, it is a personal choice of the author for who he wants to thank (if anyone at all). I will add your name to the submission text. Please end the discussion here.
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player
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This new metroid run manages to avoid yet more items, resulting in a 2-item run. I was thinking that it depreciates the value of the 1-item run.
The only difference now, is that the 1 item run doesn't have the freeze gun so it can't do the feeze enemy trick to get into tourian. So several minutes must be spent getting to it another way.
I think the value of the 1 item run is depreciated because this sacrifice of several minutes just to show off getting one less item. Though suriving the metroids without freezing them is still pretty cool.
Perhaps a double obsoletion is in order?
Just thought I would throw that out there.
EDIT: Also, I remember enjoying the 1 item run very much at the time. One thing I liked about it was it showed off so many glitches/tricks that the %any run did not. Now the %any shows off many of those glitches.
My opinion:
1) There is no reason whatsoever to obsolete 1-item run, even though it takes only one item less than this. 1-item run is technically a low% and has value in itself, since it shows Kraid, Ridley and the entire Tourian beaten under "bare bones" condition while taking the shortest routes possible, unlike 100%. They don't share any major tricks, except the wrong room door glitch (which, however, wasn't used in the current 1-item run since it wasn't available back then).
2) Even if people decide to obsolete an additional Metroid run, it should be the "no bosses" run, since it has far more repetition (item hunting, refilling in Tourian due to lack of missiles), shows no new tricks compared to the other runs including this, and is in need of improvement, anyway.
adelikat wrote:
the value of the 1 item run is depreciated because this sacrifice of several minutes just to show off getting one less item
As I've already stated, the argument is moot because it involves arbitrary judgement criterion (in this case, plain arithmetic; ie. "one less" or "two instead of one"), instead of more-or-less publicly accepted ones: the lowest possible amount of items collected (low%) and beating all bosses showing the natural fastest route (not possible to showcase in 100% run due to item collection detours).
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
I think that this run will get obsolete fast if there's a competition running around to get the fastest time :)
That will boost the progress of this game a lot :) That sure would be nice :)
It isn't a matter of class, it is a personal choice of the author for who he wants to thank (if anyone at all). I will add your name to the submission text. Please end the discussion here.
It is a personal choice, but if one doesn’t credit the people that helped make his run possible it shows lack of class. By crediting me in your submission text it shows a good deal of class on your part, as I could see why you wouldn’t be so fond of me and I am largely to blame for that, I am sorry.
I think that this run will get obsolete fast if there's a competition running around to get the fastest time :)
That will boost the progress of this game a lot :) That sure would be nice :)
I wouldn’t mind seeing something like this either, or perhaps a collaborative effort. I would gladly help anyone working on this with the optimization.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
No TASer has touched this game for a very long time. It is unlikely that a competition will occur for it. Competitions are usually for incredibly short games; monopoly, DK, DK jr., maybe even SMB. That is to say that an improvement of this run wouldn't make much sense until the full potential of the reverse door entry is realized. The possibility of skipping other vital sections of the game may even be possible one day, but would require massive testing due to the fact that you can't see samus while she is in the background of the game.
I'm pretty sure there are no more applications of the WWDG that could save time in any type of run. I did a lot of testing and looking at maps and it just doesn't seem to be there. There are three shortcuts I've found that haven't been used yet. The two in Norfair could save time in a 100% run, the one in Brinstar has potential but unfortunately I don’t think could work into the route correctly. Other than that I think every time saver has been found for this game. I would love to be proven wrong though, and I challenge anyone to do so.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
This movie has been published.
The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie.
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[844] NES Metroid by hero of the day in 08:52.18
In particular, I noticed one trick not being used in this run. The one right before Mother Brain where you glitch through a wall and avoid having to destroy all the obstacles leading up to her. Was it faster this way?
I also notice you don't stand on the frozen projectile and pummel Mother Brain with missiles from there. If you're able to fire at the same rate this way but have the added advantage of not just standing there, I guess this is better. Is that correct?
In particular, I noticed one trick not being used in this run. The one right before Mother Brain where you glitch through a wall and avoid having to destroy all the obstacles leading up to her. Was it faster this way?
