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Chrono Trigger New Game+ TAS by inichi

Sync Settings

  • WIP 1 Timing ON
  • Left+Right/Up+Down OFF
  • Volume Envelope Height Reading OFF
  • Fake Mute desync workaround ON
  • Sync samples with sound CPU ON

Attributes of this run

  • New Game+ mode (transfers items/status from a save-file into a New Game)
  • aims for fastest possible time
  • manipulates luck
  • abuses glitches
  • Genre: RPG
  • Total Frames: 32827

About the movie

This movie is an improvement of the Saturn's current published run. It is 1363 frames (22.71... seconds) faster than his run with new tricks and strategies. I used a smv-file that I personally made by using Saturn's smv-file that he has optimized fully and used in his latest run.

New trick

This is a trick to enter the menu when the screen is black by pressing X at a certain moment. There are three points where you can use this trick, before the Shell Lavos battle, after the Shell Lavos battle and before the Lavos Core battle. Normally, it costs about 80 frames when you just open the menu and immediately close it. However, as for those three points, any such loss doesn't occur at all. On the contrary, the loding time around the battles turns shorter than usual for some reason, and you can save a lot of time. Here are actual values which are saved by just opening and closing the menu.
  • Before the Shell Lavos battle: 72 frames
  • After the Shell Lavos battle: 130 frames
  • Before the Lavos Core battle: 78 frames
In my run, I use this trick three times not only just to open and close but also to heal Crono's MP and change any battle condition to be the best. Also, it is written on some Japanese websites about CT that you can open the menu before the Core battle if you mash the X button there. I'd really like to thank someone who found this trick first.

Detailed commentary on the movie

In this section, I'll give a full description of my movie, especially different parts from Saturn's run.

The save data screen

The only way to change a RNG about critical hit without alterng the battle strategy is to select the save data at different frames. I delay the timing of selecting the save data by 5 frames to get the currently best RNG, which enables to get a critical hit with Shiva Edge at the Shell and Core battle. 5 frames lost.

The battle mode screen

Select not Active but Wait for the battle setting. This is related to a new strategy of the Shell battle. I'll explain about it below.

The naming screen

Let Crono's name as it is. 15 frames saved.

Crono's room

Follow the cat holding the right key instead of waiting around the bed. 2 frames saved.

The area with Leene's bell

Talk to Marle when she is so close to Crono instead of talking to her as soon as grabbing the pendant, which reduces the distance Marle walks toward Crono when she joins in Crono. 34 frames saved.

The shop windows

Equip Crono with Shiva Edge instead of Rainbow, and don't give Valkerye to Marle. 2 frames saved.

The area with Leene's bell

Don't call on the menu to change the battle speed. Instead, this is done by using the menu entrance trick just before the Shell battle. 110 frames saved.

The area with Telepod.

Take a somewhat different path to the dot from Saturn's, and the gate opens a bit faster than usual for some reason. 3 frames saved.

Before the Shell Lavos battle

Use the menu entrance trick, set the battle speed 2 and set the menu cursor to save the previous position. It costs 3 frames to change the function of the menu cursor, however, without it, you will lose 4 frames when you use the menu trick and move around the cursor. 46 frames saved.

The Shell Lavos battle

Replace IceSword2 with Crono's critical hit with Shiva Edge and Slash. With Active, you'll never be able to use Crono's actions three times before Lavos' casts his "Chaos" at speed 2. That is why I choose Wait at the begining. 111 frames saved.

After the Shell Lavos battle

Use the menu entrance trick, set the battle mode Active, set the battle cursor to save the previous position, and use a HyperEther on Crono. As for the battle cursor, it takes 3 frames for setting. But, Crono uses only Techniques in later battles other than the first attack of the Core battle, which means it reduces the number of the cursor movement and saves a few frames. 54 frames saved.

The Lavos 2 battle

I stick to Saturn's strategy until I cut off Lavos' arms. After that, I skip to heal Crono's MP and use IceSword1, Luminaire twice and IceSword2. Also, the fastest strategy of that battle is probably to use a HyperEther on Crono, Slash and Luminaire instead of IceSword1 and IceSword2. This strategy enables to skip the refill of Crono's MP around the Lavos 2 battle and would save about 100-120 frames. However, if you follow that strategy, for some reason, a critical hit which should occur turns into a normal attack at the begining on the Core battle. Without the critical hit, you will lose around 200 frames there, and it's much more than 100-120 frames. So I had no choice but to use the rather slower strategy. 128 frames saved.

Before the Lavos Core battle

Use the menu entrance trick and use a HyperEther on exhausted Crono. 13 frames saved.

The Lavos Core battle

This battle is the most improved part from Saturn's run. I noticed by chance that the right bit skips its attack and looses the defence if you attack the right bit between the left bit's death and the right bit's attack. Also the earlier low defence enables to use Luminaire twice and beat the Center bit before it uses Spell. With the good RNG, I managed to get the critical hit from Shiva Edge at the beginning, which saves a good amount of time. Because, without it, I had to use Confuse instead of the critical hit, which has a long animation and costs about extra 200 frames. 744 frames saved.

After the Lavos Core battle

It seems the length of the time between the death of the Lavos Core and the appearance of the End of the Time varies depending on the timing you deliever the final blow to the Core. Because, I took somewhat longer time than Saturn's here. Of course, I tried to delay the final hit, but only to find more delay occurs. 17 frames lost.

The End of Time

Talk to each NPC in reverse order from Saturn's, which sets the direction to the point to jump off and the next gate be the same and reduce the total running distance. 25 frames saved.

The jail cell

Take a different path from Saturn's to eliminate the lag near the exit. 1 frame saved.

The future age room

Talk to another NPC before talking to the key NPC, which enables to skip stopping to answer the question. 91 frames saved.

The Ocean Palace room

Do the same thing with the future age room, which reduces the lag near the exit as well. 1 frame saved.

Possible improvements

  • Use a slightly faster candy skip than Hero's. 3 frames will be saved.
  • Use a save data that Marle's speed is less than 16, which would skip the cursor movement from Marle to Crono at the beginning of the Shell battle and may skip the final one of the Core battle as well. About 10 frames may be saved.
  • Manage to do the Mom escape. About 400 frames will be saved.
  • Figure out the way to meet the following requirements at the same time:
  1. a critical hit at the shell battle
  2. a critical hit or Slash at the Lavos 2 battle
  3. a critical hit at the begining of the Core battle.
About 100-120 frames would be saved.
If all the conditions are met, sub 9 minutes would be real, though, it seems low possible.

Thanks

Saturn- for making a great new game + run with an optimized savedata, motivating me to find another improvement with very positive words everytime I found an improvement, and suggesting me to submit this movie. Without his support, I'd never accomplished such a huge improvement.
I hope you enjoy the run!

adelikat: Accepting for publication as an improvement to the published movie.

TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #1664: inichi's SNES Chrono Trigger "newgame+" in 09:07.12
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Saturn about his previous submission wrote:
Maybe I should note, everybody who still trys to find some improvements to make me redo this TAS again, will fail badly this time. Simply because, and I can only repeat, there is nothing else left to improve.
Yep, nothing else.
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Oh gee, one of Saturn's perfect movies wasn't perfect at all! Who'd have thought it? Watching now... Edit: Very nice. Yes vote. :)
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Sounds sweet, good job. Might be a humbling experience for you Saturn.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
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Fabian wrote:
Sounds sweet, good job. Might be a humbling experience for you Saturn.
Don't hold your breathe. Anyhow, good job to inichi. As far as I can tell this is your first submission so congratulations to you on that as well.
I'm sciencing as fast as I can ! ______________________________________ <adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining <adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises
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Entertaining submission text. Voting yes. ;P
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Amazing stuff. Very very very very very [...] very very very very [...] very very very VERY good.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
Tub
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that's not just an improvement, that's a complete overhaul. Who would have thought that so many small things could be improved, even ones that seem obvious when you read the submission text? hell yes! (note to self: continue playing chrono trigger someday)
m00
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ShadowWraith wrote:
Oh gee, one of Saturn's perfect movies wasn't perfect at all! Who'd have thought it? Watching now...
Now now, he didn't say the movie was perfect. He just said that nothing was else left to improve; A big difference.
<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~
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Great! A fast run made even faster. Optimisation is a noble goal, and you seem to have excelled at it. :)
Voted NO for NO reason
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Awesome job! Hats off to you, inichi - here's another yes-vote! :)
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To hell with Saturn's claims of perfection. Very very yes.
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Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
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Despite it being a huge improvement, I wasn't entertained at all. I never watched Saturn's movie so I never voted there, but eh. Pending between yes and meh, mostly because the same damn move was repeated throughout the whole movie (with a quite annoying sound I might add), and then some boring chattering. I'll just vote yes for the nice improvement. Congratulations on your first TAS too.
My published movies [03:45:05] <Naohiro19> Soulrivers: ... [03:45:19] <Soulrivers> ? [03:46:35] <Naohiro19> <Soulrivers> No! <Naohiro19> So? <Soulrivers> Yes! [03:46:48] <Naohiro19> joke
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Deign wrote:
Fabian wrote:
Sounds sweet, good job. Might be a humbling experience for you Saturn.
Don't hold your breath.
Days like these, I think this article hits the spot. http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html > The second basic pattern that Bion detailed: The identification and vilification of external enemies. This is a very common pattern. Anyone who was around the Open Source movement in the mid-Nineties could see this all the time. If you cared about Linux on the desktop, there was a big list of jobs to do. But you could always instead get a conversation going about Microsoft and Bill Gates. And people would start bleeding from their ears, they would get so mad. If you want to make it better, there's a list of things to do. It's Open Source, right? Just fix it. "No, no, Microsoft and Bill Gates grrrrr ...", the froth would start coming out. The external enemy -- nothing causes a group to galvanize like an external enemy.
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simply incredible... nothing else to say other than I hope you destroy my run in the same fashion :D
They're off to find the hero of the day...
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Fabian wrote:
Sounds sweet, good job. Might be a humbling experience for you Saturn.
Time for you to get an humbling experience too.
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Phil wrote:
Fabian wrote:
Sounds sweet, good job. Might be a humbling experience for you Saturn.
Time for you to get an humbling experience too.
I'm in the middle of a humbling experience every hour of every day. Thanks though. Edit: Didn't you leave this place btw?
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
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Improvements all over the board. Very impressive. I should watch this soon, although I still do not like the concept of this run all that much. I guess my 0/8 rating for the previous run was a bit too generous. Well, hindsight is 20/20.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
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inichi + Chrono Trigger = Win
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Awesome job, inichi! Never thought you could skip the question delay in the future room like that. I'm once again highly impressed by your creativity, man. This is just another example of how important knowledge of a game is when making a TAS. You are the true Chrono Trigger master, and you proved it over and over from the very beginning we have seen your unbelievable 3:49 txt file. ;-) Congratulations on your first TAS and for discovering all this new tricks that allowed such a huge improvement. I'm really proud of you, and give the probably strongest YES vote I did in a good while!
See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun
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Phil wrote:
Time for you to get an humbling experience too.
Rude. Also, This seems like a nice improvement, though I don't like this or the previous movie. It doesn't entertain me to see maxed out characters beat a boss quickly. Of course maxed out characters can do this easily, in any RPG.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
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I appreciate the detailed submission text. As for the run itself, I love that music =D. Very creative improvements.
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props
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Thank you everyone for your comments!! That means a lot to me. Through making this run, I have developed a deeper understanding of the game and improved my TAS skills, which definitely would be useful for my CT any% run.
nesrocks
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Bisqwit wrote:
Entertaining submission text. Voting yes. ;P
Wow yes, I rarely read the submission texts, but this one got me going. The run seemed pretty solid, although I didn't like the fast text at the end (because it ruined the music).