Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
If both SOTN and AoS get a star, the amount of Castlevania games with a star will become a bit unbalanced. Almost seems like favoritism.
I'm not against it, just something to keep in mind.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
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Nach wrote:
If both SOTN and AoS get a star, the amount of Castlevania games with a star will become a bit unbalanced. Almost seems like favoritism.
I'm not against it, just something to keep in mind.
That's a fair argument. How about AoS get COTM's star and we still do SOTN. That's 1 more castlevania run, but we've had what? 10 new castlevania TASes? 1 more would still be a fair representation, in my opinion.
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
adelikat wrote:
Nach wrote:
If both SOTN and AoS get a star, the amount of Castlevania games with a star will become a bit unbalanced. Almost seems like favoritism.
I'm not against it, just something to keep in mind.
That's a fair argument. How about AoS get COTM's star and we still do SOTN. That's 1 more castlevania run, but we've had what? 10 new castlevania TASes? 1 more would still be a fair representation, in my opinion.
That sounds good to me.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Ok, not a complete update for now. Remember, stars aren't permanent and there are still quite a few things undecided...
New stars:
Chrono Trigger "glitched any%"
Bionic Commando
Castlevania - Aria of Sorrow "100% souls"
Castlevania - Symphony Of The Night
International Super Star Soccer Deluxe
Legend of Zelda - Link's Awakening DX
Removed stars:
Castlevania: Circle Of The Moon (Great run, but with recent additions Castlevania overflow, maybe it will switch stars again with another Castlevania TAS some time in the future.)
Darkwing Duck (This one and Battle of Olympus were planned to switch stars at some point when they got them, as multiple were popular, and a bit of variety and a not too static star list are nice.)
Battle of Olympus
Points of discussion:
Lemmings (I'm planning on giving a puzzle TAS a star. I am not fully convinced Lemmings is the most action packed or entertaining for a first-time TAS viewer, or someone unfamiliar with the game. I am not the only one with this opinion, but there are some strong opinions otherwise, and the response in the submission thread was very positive. I'm currently tending towards giving Lemmings a star, or is there a different puzzle TAS preferred?
Kings Bounty (For some it's the TAS most deserving to be in the star list, for others it's a complete joke that it's there. Is there something like a category 'beats game a rediculous amount faster than intended', and if so, should Chrono Trigger take this star for now? Should they coexist?
Gunstar Heroes / Gunstar Super Heroes Which one is preferred?
Legend of Zelda - A Link to the Past (Just thought I'd bring it up, should Link's Awakening DX obsolete this star, or should the coexist?)
Family Feud (Very popular, and got multiple 2009 awards. The soccer TAS is however already a 'funny TAS', and quite a few other TASes that got 2009 awards were already starred now... should this also get a star?
Golden Axe (Does this TAS still have support for a star? Is some other TAS preferred in its stead?
The N64 is relatively underrepresented, but there are a lot of potentially great N64 TASes currently being worked on. Same for the Mega Man 1 star, it is a good idea to reconsider it for a star when a new version is finished.
There are still some more stars to add. Maybe a few suggestions on hidden gems, which might not even be recently published, but overlooked, and very fun to watch? Maybe a fighting game (arcade?)?
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Baxter wrote:
Ok, not a complete update for now. Remember, stars aren't permanent and there are still quite a few things undecided...
New stars:
Chrono Trigger "glitched any%"
Bionic Commando
Castlevania - Aria of Sorrow "100% souls"
Castlevania - Symphony Of The Night
International Super Star Soccer Deluxe
Legend of Zelda - Link's Awakening DX
Removed stars:
Castlevania: Circle Of The Moon (Great run, but with recent additions Castlevania overflow, maybe it will switch stars again with another Castlevania TAS some time in the future.)
Darkwing Duck (This one and Battle of Olympus were planned to switch stars at some point when they got them, as multiple were popular, and a bit of variety and a not too static star list are nice.)
Battle of Olympus
Points of discussion:
Lemmings (I'm planning on giving a puzzle TAS a star. I am not fully convinced Lemmings is the most action packed or entertaining for a first-time TAS viewer, or someone unfamiliar with the game. I am not the only one with this opinion, but there are some strong opinions otherwise, and the response in the submission thread was very positive. I'm currently tending towards giving Lemmings a star, or is there a different puzzle TAS preferred?
Kings Bounty (For some it's the TAS most deserving to be in the star list, for others it's a complete joke that it's there. Is there something like a category 'beats game a rediculous amount faster than intended', and if so, should Chrono Trigger take this star for now? Should they coexist?
Gunstar Heroes / Gunstar Super Heroes Which one is preferred?
Legend of Zelda - A Link to the Past (Just thought I'd bring it up, should Link's Awakening DX obsolete this star, or should the coexist?)
Family Feud (Very popular, and got multiple 2009 awards. The soccer TAS is however already a 'funny TAS', and quite a few other TASes that got 2009 awards were already starred now... should this also get a star?
Golden Axe (Does this TAS still have support for a star? Is some other TAS preferred in its stead?
The N64 is relatively underrepresented, but there are a lot of potentially great N64 TASes currently being worked on. Same for the Mega Man 1 star, it is a good idea to reconsider it for a star when a new version is finished.
There are still some more stars to add. Maybe a few suggestions on hidden gems, which might not even be recently published, but overlooked, and very fun to watch? Maybe a fighting game (arcade?)?
It's about damn time the all soul stole CotM's star.
For puzzle star, why not kill 2 birds with one stone? Tetris DS is even faster block spamming than wetrix or tetrisphere, and it can help promote the DS list to start. it may not be the best DS run on the site currently, but it fits the puzzle bill, and is short/sweet/fast.
King's Bounty shouldn't be on it, IMO. Chrono Trigger does far more glitchy WTF game over stuff in better ways.
Gunstar, eep. I don't want to promote my run over the other, since I find genesis's 2 player action cool, but it does run kind of long at 30+ minutes. It's autoscrollers and bosses are also longer and less interesting. And GSH has higher ratings and won the speedy award. Well, I'll just let you folks decide on that one.
Link to the Past and Link's awakening can co-exist, I think.
Family Feud vs. Soccer, I dunno. They are kinda different kinds of humor.
N64, I think is fine as is. only star worthy published n64 runs, IMO, are SM64, banjo kazooie, and mischief makers. Mischief has too many emulator issues though, so maybe add banjo, and keep an eye out for Goldeneye, OoT, and MM coming out this year. Watching those 3 compete would be awesome indeed.
For fun fighting game, I think errorr1's short 2 player PSX streetfighter something or other should be considered. Besides super smash bros., it is the only fighting TAS that interested me.
Golden Axe? bleh.
Lemmings (I'm planning on giving a puzzle TAS a star. I am not fully convinced Lemmings is the most action packed or entertaining for a first-time TAS viewer, or someone unfamiliar with the game. I am not the only one with this opinion, but there are some strong opinions otherwise, and the response in the submission thread was very positive. I'm currently tending towards giving Lemmings a star, or is there a different puzzle TAS preferred?
I think the Lemmings TAS has a bit too much deadtime to be star-worthy. I'm not certain what puzzle game we have that is star-worthy, mostly because I haven't given it much thought.
Kings Bounty (For some it's the TAS most deserving to be in the star list, for others it's a complete joke that it's there. Is there something like a category 'beats game a rediculous amount faster than intended', and if so, should Chrono Trigger take this star for now? Should they coexist?
Much as I love the King's Bounty TAS, I think the Chrono Trigger run represents a greater total achievement and is much more WTF.
Gunstar Heroes / Gunstar Super Heroes Which one is preferred?
Here I prefer Gunstar Heroes, for a few reasons: It has two players; it has a more interesting weapons system (which is taken advantage of for playarounds); it has better music; it doesn't have tons of shouting all the time.
Legend of Zelda - A Link to the Past (Just thought I'd bring it up, should Link's Awakening DX obsolete this star, or should the coexist?)
Oooh, tough question. The DX run is pretty glitched-out, though, while LttP is mostly played straight; I think they're different enough to at least consider having them both have stars.
Family Feud (Very popular, and got multiple 2009 awards. The soccer TAS is however already a 'funny TAS', and quite a few other TASes that got 2009 awards were already starred now... should this also get a star?
Family Feud is clever, yes, but once you get the "I can almost write anything I want in here and it'll get accepted" the cleverness is just in what jokes the TASer decided to make, which is sort of orthogonal to the concept of TASing. I think leaving the star just for ISSD is sufficient.
Golden Axe (Does this TAS still have support for a star? Is some other TAS preferred in its stead?
To be honest I've never liked the Golden Axe series.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
I'm going to watch a bunch of stuff before adding my opinion.
However - I'm just wondering... what determines the order of the list of movies on the star page? http://tasvideos.org/Movies-Rec.html
It's not alphabetical, by # or by date starred... is it just an arbitrary list that could be edited?
I'm just some random guy. Don't let my words get you riled - I have my opinions but they're only mine.
However - I'm just wondering... what determines the order of the list of movies on the star page? http://tasvideos.org/Movies-Rec.html
It's not alphabetical, by # or by date starred... is it just an arbitrary list that could be edited?
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Baxter wrote:
New stars:
Chrono Trigger "glitched any%"
Bionic Commando
Castlevania - Aria of Sorrow "100% souls"
Castlevania - Symphony Of The Night
International Super Star Soccer Deluxe
Legend of Zelda - Link's Awakening DX
Good job, thanks.
I didn't even think about Bionic Commando, but it's a good choice for a star.
Baxter wrote:
Removed stars:
Castlevania: Circle Of The Moon (Great run, but with recent additions Castlevania overflow, maybe it will switch stars again with another Castlevania TAS some time in the future.)
Darkwing Duck (This one and Battle of Olympus were planned to switch stars at some point when they got them, as multiple were popular, and a bit of variety and a not too static star list are nice.)
Battle of Olympus
This is good too.
Baxter wrote:
Points of discussion:
Lemmings (I'm planning on giving a puzzle TAS a star. I am not fully convinced Lemmings is the most action packed or entertaining for a first-time TAS viewer, or someone unfamiliar with the game. I am not the only one with this opinion, but there are some strong opinions otherwise, and the response in the submission thread was very positive. I'm currently tending towards giving Lemmings a star, or is there a different puzzle TAS preferred?
You already know my opinions on this, but I'll share for the other people here who haven't seen what I wrote on IRC.
Lemmings is a very popular game. It's been ported to system after system, and it's still being ported to modern systems, as well as cell phones and PDAs.
It's true not everyone would care for the game, and not everyone wants to sit through an hour TAS of it either. However, I think nearly all people coming to our site would be familiar with the game, and they'll know in advance whether they like Lemmings or not before deciding to watch it. They'll also see the length and decide if they have that kind of time willing to watch it. If they decide after knowing these two points up front to still watch it, I think there is a very high probability that the person watching it will be blown away by the movie.
The movie time and again shows an army of lemmings arriving to a point just as the final brick is laid to complete a bridge, and in most levels, the exact amount of Lemmings required is saved. Also time and again, bombers are blown up at exactly the right instant. This in general shows off the excellent potential of TASing. Those knowing the puzzles will also be floored by the original solutions to many of the puzzles. The run also does many things people have never thought possible. Building nearly straight bridges, mining and bashing through the ceiling, and many other things to surprise and entertain the viewer. It also plays the Sunsoft levels which many are not familiar with, and would be interested to see.
Now if we go back to the point that not everyone wants to see Lemmings, the same can be said of any starred movie. Right now Sonic the Hedgehog 3 is our highest rated starred movie, and I think the movie is incredibly boring, I can't even watch the entire run. I greatly dislike all Sonic games in general, and I doubt you could ever make a run which would interest me. The only exception being Sonic Advance 2, that run entertains me, but in general you can't impress me with a Sonic game. But I don't mind it having a star, because anyone who dislikes Sonic games will not watch it in any event, and those who do like it will probably be impressed. The same can be said of Super Metroid for example, I love it, but some people here thinks Metroid looks dumb and can't sit through it either.
People aren't going to watch a starred movie because it has a star, they're going to watch it because the idea of watching the game in general is appealing to them, or a combination of the screenshot and text alongside it is appealing enough to make them want to watch it, when they see it on our recommended movie list. That being said, once these factors make someone want to watch a movie, then a starred movie should entertain them and surpass their expectations.
Regarding boring points here and there, all long movies have boring points. I think Super Metroid is very boring till after coming off the elevator after acquiring the morph ball. I doubt anyone is entertained by the huge unskippable intro, and probably most people here are bored by Ceres station as it's basically the same thing every time, and nothing that impressive about it. All these movies have low points in them, but we really enjoy them because they're filled with many really high points, and we know the authors tried their best with what they had to work with. We don't expect anyone to make Samus's elevator time interesting, nor should we really expect to make an army of Lemmings walking the last stretch into an exit interesting either. But you already know not to have high expectations for that when deciding to watch a movie.
All this being said, I think Lemmings is an excellent choice for a star.
Baxter wrote:
Family Feud (Very popular, and got multiple 2009 awards. The soccer TAS is however already a 'funny TAS', and quite a few other TASes that got 2009 awards were already starred now... should this also get a star?
Based on its reception I think it should get a star, even if for the most part, the run wasn't my cup of tea. Although it did make me smirk a few times.
Baxter wrote:
Golden Axe (Does this TAS still have support for a star? Is some other TAS preferred in its stead?
I think we should give a star to a fighting game instead. I think MK2 and UMK3 were very well received, and downright hilarious. There's also to consider one of the CPS-2 fighting games. Although generally these games don't excel in accuracy, they're very entertaining, appeal to a crowd that may not like some of the other starred games, and gives us more variety.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
Baxter wrote:
Points of discussion:
Lemmings (I'm planning on giving a puzzle TAS a star. I am not fully convinced Lemmings is the most action packed or entertaining for a first-time TAS viewer, or someone unfamiliar with the game. I am not the only one with this opinion, but there are some strong opinions otherwise, and the response in the submission thread was very positive. I'm currently tending towards giving Lemmings a star, or is there a different puzzle TAS preferred?
Kings Bounty (For some it's the TAS most deserving to be in the star list, for others it's a complete joke that it's there. Is there something like a category 'beats game a rediculous amount faster than intended', and if so, should Chrono Trigger take this star for now? Should they coexist?
Gunstar Heroes / Gunstar Super Heroes Which one is preferred?
Legend of Zelda - A Link to the Past (Just thought I'd bring it up, should Link's Awakening DX obsolete this star, or should the coexist?)
Family Feud (Very popular, and got multiple 2009 awards. The soccer TAS is however already a 'funny TAS', and quite a few other TASes that got 2009 awards were already starred now... should this also get a star?
Golden Axe (Does this TAS still have support for a star? Is some other TAS preferred in its stead?
I never played lemmings, so I couldn't sit through more than 10 minutes of it without becoming very bored.
I think Chrono Trigger wins out over King's Bounty solely for the fact that more people familiar with Chrono Trigger, and they both display a large amount of "WTF is going on?"
I personally enjoyed GH more than GSH, for several of the points that have already been brought up (2 players, more variety of weapons, less annoying shouting).
Zeldas: Either one or both would work, I don't really have an opinion.
Family Feud is a winner for me, I found that movie absolutely hilarious and is likely to be incredibly surprising for a newcomer. ISS wasn't really my cup of tea.
Golden Ax: Meh. I'd prefer one of the other fighting game runs, likely the UMK3 movie.
The problem with Family Feud is that the only form of tool-assistance comes from typing in answers at the optimal speed, something which is trivial to do using frame advance+save states.
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
True, but we always have several members saying there's too much of an emphasis on speed on the site. Family Feud displays a very large amount of creativity in an unexpected way (who ever thought a TAS of a game show could be entertaining?), which is what makes it stand out to me.
I'm not saying the "The game isn't suited for Speedrunning" or "The game is too trivial to TAS". My point is while many might find the movie amusing, it's simply not very impressive to watch from a visual point of view. Viewers would get the same enjoyment out of someone inputing the answers in real time. Thats why ISS is much better suited to a star.
I watched International Soccer, and while I enjoyed it immensely, I think other sports games do the playarounds better, like Tecmo Superbowl. Now that is nonstop laughs (could be just because I understand football, though).
Joined: 11/4/2007
Posts: 1772
Location: Australia, Victoria
arkiandruski wrote:
(could be just because I understand football, though).
That'd make sense, because I have zero understanding of American football whatsoever.
How Australian Football or Soccer, those sort of games make sense.
Joined: 10/28/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: The dark horror in the back of your mind
arkiandruski wrote:
I watched International Soccer, and while I enjoyed it immensely, I think other sports games do the playarounds better, like Tecmo Superbowl. Now that is nonstop laughs (could be just because I understand football, though).
Speaking as somebody who cares little for sports generally, I haven't found many, if any, of the other sports playarounds to be interesting at all. ISSSD, on the other hand, seems to be just over the top enough to make it accessible to everyone (myself, oddly, included).
Now that I have no responsibility of having to actually flesh-out and implement such thing, I can throw more oddball ideas.
How about granting some kind of shared / diluted / half-stars for movies that
[... err, insert an illness induced 80 hour pause in composing the post here ...]
belong to a group of very similar games which accumulate a high number of stars otherwise?
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
I'm not too surprised about UMK3, personally. That run was, for me, one of the most entertaining runs I've seen on this site. Of course entertainment is very subjective.
