Joined: 10/31/2004
Posts: 62
This game puts ninja gaiden to shame in the grafix department. It is a near clone of it. It is so awesome but i keep getting desynced. I was going to suprise everyone with a speed run but I am having too many problems. Maybe if you just walk and not backflip it wont desync??? All of you are welcomed to do a run for this game since i feel like giving up.
ventuz
He/Him
Player (126)
Joined: 10/4/2004
Posts: 940
have you tried to turn off "sound emulation" ?
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
ventuz wrote:
have you tried to turn off "sound emulation" ?
Not a good idea. If watching your movie requires turning sound off, there's no way it's going to be published.
Former player
Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 550
Location: New York
In terms of the game, it used to be on my list but then I took it off because it would pretty much be exclusively backflipping through levels. However, a variety of moves are used, and it would probably look good nonetheless. In terms of the desynching problem, I don't think either not backflipping or turning the sound off is a viable solution.
Joined: 10/31/2004
Posts: 62
i guess i'll wait for the movie recording to become better or the emulation.
ventuz
He/Him
Player (126)
Joined: 10/4/2004
Posts: 940
i thought you could record it from no-sound emulation, then turn back on and run video with no desync?
Former player
Joined: 7/14/2006
Posts: 51
Location: Mexico
After playing a little with the options of Snes9x i decided to join the fun and start a TAS proyect. The game i decided to make is called Hagane, a somewhat obscure game where you play as the ninja Hagane who tries to save the world from Armageddon or something. Hagane (E) Uses WIP1 Timing http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1418/Hagane1.smv A WIP all the way to Stage 3. There are a lot of areas that i can improve but i'm still learning how to do this TAS thing. Comments, questions or ideas are welcomed.
Joined: 6/14/2004
Posts: 646
Well if you improve it, look for the (U) version instead. 60 fps is much more eye pleasing than 50 fps.
I like my "thank you"s in monetary form.
Former player
Joined: 7/14/2006
Posts: 51
Location: Mexico
Hehe, you are right. Got so excited seeing what i could do with about 30mins of TASing (stage 1-1) that i totally forgot to change the version. Thanks for the quick reply NrgSpoon, next update will be on the (U) version. :D
Former player
Joined: 7/14/2006
Posts: 51
Location: Mexico
Former player
Joined: 7/14/2006
Posts: 51
Location: Mexico
Active player (407)
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 708
I'd worked on a Hagane run before and kind of moved on to other things, but I decided to get back to work on it. I managed to beat Tiger's run of 1-1 by 2 frames, and managed to do it in style. This game was made for a TAS. It's super hard and there's about a hundred different moves you can do so you can be stylish as you kill tons of bad guys who come at you from every direction at once. So naturally, I experimented with lots of cool tricks, and still managed to beat it as optimally as I was able to determine. Due to one minor optimization, plus analyzing the boss HP on the RAM map, and then testing the various attacks and the amounts of damage they do to him, I managed to save 228 frames over Tiger's run in 1-2. That's as far as I've gotten. You can watch the SMV here: http://www.heisanevilgenius.com/Heisanevilgenius_Hagane-WIP.smv
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3575)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
About a year ago Dark Fulgore did a TAS of this but never submitted: http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf6_QKjM-7Y I asked him to submit to TASvideos because I thought it was a very publishable movie but he wanted to optimize it more. I'd really like to see a submission of this game, so good luck!
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Active player (407)
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 708
His time is extremely close to mine, so far. It's hard to tell without actually using the smvs as guidelines. His run also makes some strange choices. I guess it's not necessary to destroy all the turrets on the gunship, but in my opinion it's a lot more fun to watch the character destroy everything rather than just slide around. I do notice he made a nice use of the slide on 1-2 which is probably faster than what I did.
Former player
Joined: 7/14/2006
Posts: 51
Location: Mexico
Will check as soon as i get home from work and compare it to my last unfinished WIP. If you need help I think I have some old notes on my computer at home. This is a very awesome game, even the scrolling stages are a blast to TAS. Good luck, and if you are willing maybe we can get something done together/get some competition going. :)
Active player (407)
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 708
I'm fairly well convinced 1-1 is optimal. 1-2, however, I know I can optimize further with the wall jumping. That part's tricky to get just right.
Active player (407)
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 708
I redid 1-2 and beat my old time by 16 frames. Dark Fulgore's slide trick really helped out. I did quite a bit of testing and seemed to have found the optimal use of it. I also spent some time optimizing the boss battle as much as possible, but I'm not sure I beat my original time. I know I at least matched it, though. Edit: Ugh! Somehow I forgot to press start during the "LEVEL 1-2" screen all this time. That means I'm probably going to have to redo it again.
Active player (407)
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 708
This game is remarkably easy to optimize. Most of the game is holding down one button for a while. Usually L or R. Very few parts need to be frame-precise. I've sliced off 143 more frames off my run. You can take a look at the newest version here: http://www.heisanevilgenius.com/Heisanevilgenius_Hagane-WIP3.smv 1-1 and 1-2 are now as optimal as I can figure.
Former player
Joined: 7/14/2006
Posts: 51
Location: Mexico
Here is my very last WIP all the way to the 3-4 Boss. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1313132644/Hagane1.smv By the end of 1-2 i'm ahead of you by 19 frames and you killed the Boss a lot faster than i did. The secret is to not backflip all the stage. The thing is, at the end of the backflip Hagane has a 5 frames recovery where he slides on the ground on the same direction, but when he propels himself backwards again you lose 4 frames because he stands still. You can notice it in normal speed by seeing how to screen stops for a little bit everytime the screen moves by countinous flipping. So the key is to short hop-spin (Jump in 1 frame, release, and jump at the next frame and hold the button). When you spin you may encounter an enemy, or an object with a hitbox, in those cases you attack out of the spin with the flamming kick (Down at anytime in the jump) and in the very next frame spin and only lose 1 frame while continuing moving forward. But when there are no enemies, you just flame kick to the ground and then slide, here you lose anything between 2 and 4 frames thanks to the crouching sprite and depending how for of the ground you are when you start the kick. Here are some frame counts, damage ratings and RAM addresses:
Frame
----------
Full Triple Jump ------------ 155 Frames

Enemy Invicibility Frames --------- 7 Frames


Damage
----------
Sword ----------------------- 2 Damage (Add Invicibility Frames)
Shuriken -------------------- 2 Damage (Add Invicibility Frames)
Bomb ------------------------ 2 Damage (Add Invicibility Frames)
Bomb Explosion -------------- 1 Damage (DOES NOT Add Invicibility Frames)
Chain ----------------------- 1 Damage (DOES NOT Add Invicibility Frames)

Forward Roll 1 Step JUMP ---- 6 Damage (Add Invicibility Frames)
Forward Roll 1 Step ATTACK -- 5 Damage (Add Invicibility Frames)

Forward Roll 2 Steps JUMP --- 2 Damage (Add Invicibility Frames) Lasts Long
Forward Roll 2 Steps ATTACK - 7 Damage (Add Invicibility Frames)

Forward Roll 3 Steps JUMP --- 25 Damage (Add Invicibility Frames)
Forward Roll 3 Steps ATTACK - 4 Damage (Add Invicibility Frames) Lasts Long

DOWN while jumping ---------- 1 Damage (DOES NOT Add Invicibility Frames)

Bomb----------------------- 6 Damage

RAM Address
--------------
[HAGANE USA]

7e102F,1u,1st Boss HP
7e11AF,1u,2nd, 6th Boss HP
7e122f,1u,3rd Boss HP
7e112f,1u,4th Boss HP
A little messy, but here are some explanations. The bomb explosion, that is, the blast range of a exploding bomb does 1 damage and doesn't add invicibility frames, that is if you could spam them you could continually do 1 damage as fast as you could hit with it. You can cancel both the sword and chain attacks by sliding. Also you can spam the flamming kick with, jump, kick, jump again and kick again but every time you repeat this you lose height. And finally the bomb, it does a lot of damage so i think it's a good idea to end the bosses with it, but it adds TONS of lag, never really studied it beyond that point though. That's all i think, will post if i remember anything else. Good luck. Note: Don't get discouraged with the 3-4 boss, he's real cheap. :P
Active player (407)
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 708
I just took a look at your run and noticed you're spamming the start button. Quick tip: Don't do that. :p If you press start every alternate frame, you'll eventually get it within one frame of the earliest opportunity. But if you just frame advance and play around with it you can almost as easily figure out the exact frame you need to hit start and only press it once. I'll try a frame and if it doesn't work, I'll try a frame later on, and keep going until it works, then backtrack and try an earlier frame to see if it works, and slowly narrow it down. It's really not that hard. Optimizing the actual gameplay is much harder. Otherwise, your run looks to be a huge improvement over Dark Fulgore's, and you definitely have worked out a lot of stuff I haven't. Seems like all I can really do to improve is some minor boss-related stuff.
Active player (407)
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 708
I tried and I can't even match your time to the first gunship. I thought I figured out the most optimal way to spin jump and slide all the way, but in your run you get there at frame 1104 and my best time is 1106. We both start the first jump at the same frame, so it's not like you somehow beat me during the "Press start" portions. I think we'll need to work together on this, as I'm pretty lost. :p
Former player
Joined: 7/14/2006
Posts: 51
Location: Mexico
Sure thing, just post the SMV and i'll check it out. Always a pleasure to work with another TAS'er.
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
I really hope you guys will make it, because this is a badass game that needs a badass TAS. :)
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Former player
Joined: 7/14/2006
Posts: 51
Location: Mexico
Well, after like 3 years I'm finally back at this. Been toying for the past years on random stages, so progress will hopefully be a lot faster. Managed to shave 34 frames from my old WIP until 1-4 thanks to a faster boss on 1-2(thanks to Hyena for the strat) and better jumps on 1-3. Also managed to lose ~20 frames on 1-1 on some cool looking jumps after the first ship. Unfortunately I only have the weekends to work on this one, so the updates will not be very frequent. There's a graphic glitch if you attack with the chain, switch to the kunai or bomb and throw it while the chain is getting back to Hagane, couldn't find anything useful with that yet. Jumping and attacking UPwards with the chain gives Hagane a very small hitbox on his head on the very first frame before the animation comes out, enabling a spinjump cancel and giving me the hitbox, useful for killing flying 1HP enemies. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/128349192/Hagane1-4.smv Edit: Ugh, managed to somehow not add my name on the Author Info box. Oh well. :p
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3575)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
Are you familiar with this?
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects