Super Metroid 14% (aka. glitchless/legit Low%) TAS v1.1 by Saturn

Recorded on Snes9x 1.43-improvement9 (but works on future versions of the Snes9x 1.43 series just fine as well)

Sync Settings

  • WIP 1 Timing: ON
  • Left+Right/Up+Down: OFF
  • Volume Envelope Height Reading: OFF
  • Fake Mute desync workaround: ON
  • Sync samples with sound CPU: ON

Attributes of this run

  • 14% mode (beats the game with the least amount of items possible in legal conditions)
  • aims for fastest possible time, both, real- and ingame time wise
  • takes damage to save time
  • very high luck manipulation (especially to get optimal refills)
  • abuses glitches (but not the major out of room ones the 6% TAS does)
  • Genre: Platformer
  • Total Frames: 153428
Addendum by Bisqwit: "legal conditions" as defined here: Forum/Posts/184660 and Forum/Posts/184775 according to the author.
Suggested screenshot:

About the Game

Super Metroid is a classic platformer with many advanced techniques and a very fine, subpixel-based move engine. The story is about a bounty hunter called Samus who has the goal to explore a foreign planet called Zebes to find and destroy Mother Brain, the evil leader of the galaxy who is breeding a mighty species called Metroids to abuse them for her own benefits. During the journey you will find alot of items such as new ammo, energy tanks, special upgrades that speed you up or allow to pass certain areas you would normally not be able to, and making your character strong enough to be ready for the upcoming showdown against Mother Brain.
Despite being 14 years old by now, it is considered as one of the best games ever made, and is still played by many people on a regular basis. Due to the many different move techniques, a high variety through the new upgrades, and alot of route possibilities, this game is a very common target for many types of speedruns and playthroughs.

Moviemaking & Comments

As promised in the Super Metroid thread, here is my first version of a 14% TAS. I mainly recorded it between July 19, 2007 and January 1 2008 (v1.0), with a small improvement added during the big Metroid escape in July 2008 (v1.1). It's a huge improvement to the previous run, beating it by gigantic 30517 frames (or ~8,5 minutes) of realtime, and achieving a record-time completion of 0:27 minutes on the game clock (or 27:59 to be more exactly), which is definitely the limit for a glitchless 14% run. On top of that I managed to avoid the pause screen / menu entrance completely except to execute the unavoidable Gravity Jump, getting a optimal realtime as well while making the run more entertaining to watch due to less interruptions.
During the making of the run I managed to develop some really cool techs never done before, most noticeably the "WS-Lake horizontal bomb jump" without collecting the Missile pack, and also many new strategies at bosses (especially on Ridley and Draygon) to still beat them very quickly, even with the very limited conditions in ammo and equipment. Finally the run uses a fully optimized route to avoid backtracking as much as possible.
All in all, the quality of the run is very high, and it's only improvable by at most 15 seconds in the early parts of the run (the late ones are pretty much flawless with a few tiny exceptions worth of single frames only). Ammo and energy management is excellent over the entire run, and in fact, the refill drops are so good in this one that I doubt they could be reproduced without sacrificing realtime by entering the menu to manipulate them, which would in any case result in possible slowdowns to compensate that.
Seeing that the 14% category got kind of obsoleted by the 6% NBMB one (although they can't really be compared to each other), I don't expect this to be published, despite the huge and ground breaking improvement. My intention with this submission is to just contribute a unique run that sets a eternal ingame completion record to this site for the many people who want to see it, especially for those who have problems downloading large video files due to slow connections. It's definitely not less entertaining than the 6% NBMB TAS overall, so maybe it's worth to at least include this submission to the description of it without necessary publishing, like it was done a couple of times before. There is also a concept demo section for runs that aim for special goals like this one, so it would eventually fit there as well.

Ice VS Speed

In a 14% run, you must either take the Ice Beam, or Speed Booster. Both items, as different as they are, have the same purpose: They are required to get past the pre-Botwoon room and through the Zebetites in Tourian. I collected the Ice Beam in this run because my tests have confirmed that it is at least 75 ingame seconds (and even more realtime sec) faster in the end, despite of the slower running speed and the missing shinesparks. The reason is that Ice Beam does 50% more damage than the normal beam you have to use when picking up Speed Booster, and therefore speeds up boss battles with much HP alot. In fact, the Mother Brain fight alone already compensates the entire losses of the lacking Speed Booster, with additional big time saver at Ridley and the Metroids (which you would have to slowly PB otherwise).

Thanks

  • Terimakasih -- for his previous 0:35 run. He used a nearly same route, which helped alot in the decision to pick Ice over Speed Booster, giving me a pretty accurate estimation before even starting this run that the former will be a faster choice especially due to early Wrecked Ship.
  • Cpadolf -- for his new technique to escape the big Metroid even faster. It was the key to get the 0:27 time in this run.
  • Hero of the Day -- for his any% v1 in 0:25 run. It was of great help to me when comparing the Speed Booster gains and allowed me to estimate the rough completion time of this run already back at Ridley.
  • Moozooh -- for the Torizo Skip, and for motivating me to start this run parallelly to his own 14% one that would use the Speed Booster route. I actually hoped he would finish his one so that we would have TASes for both routes and a better comparison between them, but unfortunately it didn't want to happen.
And everybody else who has contributed something useful for SM-TASing.

Notes

For those interested, this run is also available on YouTube.
Enjoy!

mmbossman: I’m rejecting this run for the following reasons:
Primary reason - Quoting the Judge Guidelines: ‘’Keep the number of different branches per a game minimal.’’ This run is an attempt to resurrect a movie branch that is now obsolete, as there is already a true low% Super Metroid run published, and I see no need to resurrect a dead category. Considering that the previous 14% run was left unimproved for 4 years, while multiple other Super Metroid runs were improved (and added) several times, it shows that there is a lack of interest in the Super Metroid TAS community in this category, which can likely be correlated to a lower interest in this category from the TASvideos community in general. When compared to the three currently published "non-glitched" runs, this movie provides very little additional entertainment value for viewers who do not closely follow Super Metroid techniques and tricks.
Secondary reason - The goals of this run, along with the execution of those goals, are nebulous. The author has stated an obvious preference towards ‘’maximally optimized subpixel position’’ techniques in the latter half of his run, while rationalizing intentionally missed techniques in the first half of the run by saying they ‘’add up to the entertainment level of the run’’. I am not against entertainment tradeoffs at the expense of speed, however those exceptions should be made clear in the submission text, not explained away afterward (and especially not in the passive aggressive manner shown by the author). Additionally, very little attempt is made in the submission text to define what makes a run ‘’legit’’ in the authors mind, and the issue is further clouded by admitting to abusing other glitches. This lack of clear goals is the second reason this submission is rejected.

Saturn:
Dear mmbossman, the goals of this run are as clear as they can be: Completing the game with the minimal amount of items without skipping bosses and use major glitches. The explanation of "legal conditions" wasn't stated in the submission text because I expected it to be a obvious thing to anybody who knows at least a bit about Super Metroid (since those who don't, wouldn't even care to watch this run). Besides, it was explained in the discussion tread here, or here. You apparently still fail to realize that the 6% run you labeled as "true low%" skips 90% of the game and all bosses, so it can't be put into the classic low% category this run represents, that exists for almost any game.
Also, the clear majority of people have stated that they enjoyed the run and think the category is good. I'm not sure if ignoring all this people and just go by your own biased opinion is a good thing, especially for the TAS community as a whole, which because of that will miss a very unique and entertaining quality run that would only enrich this site due to the many people who would definitely be interested to see it. Too bad.

mmbossman: For my rebuttal to Saturn's complaints, see the following links: Link 1 Link 2 Link 3 Link 4

Saturn:
Since we're at it, mmbossman forgot Link 5, for a clear and detailed explanation to his "multiple goal problem". Didn't seem to arrive yet, but hey, it's not too late.

Bisqwit starts concentrating on a new spell.
Bisqwit holds up a diamond and whispers the magic words "herää".
Pieces of #2136: Saturn's SNES Super Metroid "glitchless low%" in 42:37.13 surface from various positions in the ground
and come together forming a living submission!
Eww! The pieces stink like grue excrement ― hardly surprising,
considering the circumstances in which they were deposited.
Bisqwit starts concentrating on a new spell.
Bisqwit empties a bag of fairy dust at #2136: Saturn's SNES Super Metroid "glitchless low%" in 42:37.13 and sings "wunderbaum, wunderbaum".
The foul smell of #2136: Saturn's SNES Super Metroid "glitchless low%" in 42:37.13 is neutralized!
Submission 2136 has been resurrected from the dead.

Bisqwit: Decision: Submission postponed until a time we can have arbitrary goal movies without making the site unmanageable.

adelikat: Decision: rejected until a time we can have arbitrary goal movies without making the site unmanageable

Nach: Since the above has now come to fruition, accepting.
feos: Processing.......


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Skilled player (1416)
Joined: 10/27/2004
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Twelvepack wrote:
You are a blight in an otherwise enjoyable and well mannered community.
Bolded is arguable, considering topics for many popular games (Mario 64 in particular) tend to sporadically erupt like active volcanoes.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Banned User
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Posts: 1850
mmbossman wrote:
Not necessarily. The 16 star version was replaced because, up to the point of the 1 star run, it was the fastest possible way to complete SM64. I wouldn't be opposed to a happy medium run for that series (70 stars, probably), because it fills a void.
Yeah, you have a point. I'd like to see a 70-star run too (perhaps the best stars in the game, regardless of time? :P)
This run doesn't fill a void, it just takes up space.
:D
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Player (206)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
Twelvepack wrote:
I only brought it back up because you denied knowing about it.
You are indeed immune to logical thinking. It's not my fault if you can't get it, despite everything being said on page 1.
Twelvepack wrote:
Unlike in old days, there are unfortunately a few blights in an otherwise enjoyable and well mannered community.
Fixed. And yeah, there is nothing we can do about it.
See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun
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Can't we all just get along :D
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Skilled player (1652)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Twelvepack wrote:
Unlike in old days, there are unfortunately a few blights in an otherwise enjoyable and well mannered community.
Fixed. And yeah, there is nothing we can do about it.[/quote] This is violation of rules of this forum. You are not suppose to alter the meaning of people's quotes. He called YOU the blight.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Joined: 1/14/2005
Posts: 216
In my experience at this site, the well-manned non-blights (Bisqwit, alden, etc) seem to be the outliers. Definitely not saying I'm one of them either, I'm guilty as charged. And I'm not criticizing the people here either, because people just adapt to their environments. Every time I talk with people who have been around this site for a long time, they agree it's jumped the shark. We then try to figure out when. At first I suggested Phil vs Sleepz SMB2, but BoltR suggested it was earlier. I think we settled on Josh the FunkDOC leaving, although of course jumping the shark is a silly idea and there's more than one moment.
"I think happiness is just being able to loaf without stress." http://speeddemosarchive.com/
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Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
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You're right, jumping the shark is silly. Saturn, stop shooting yourself in the foot. Seriously. If someone calls you out on being an asshole, doing an asshole move like changing their quote is not going to make you look better.
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Comicalflop wrote:
Saturn, stop shooting yourself in the foot. Seriously. If someone calls you out on being an asshole, doing an asshole move like changing their quote is not going to make you look better.
Psh, trivial details like that are no matter to him.
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Ignoring the problem/bad behavior only works for two things: Little toddlers and Birds.
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Posts: 123
Oh hey I was mentioned a page ago. I guess I ought to put in my 2c then. ;>_>
Saturn wrote:
What I meant with editing was the video (aka. AVI) file. It could be done without much effort, but the video wouldn't be legit that way, even though the result would look 100% the same like making another smv from scratch.
Except as you just said, everything afterward would change because of the RNG. Maybe it would be faster. Maybe it would be slower. But it almost certainly wouldn't be the same.
Saturn wrote:
Oh, and you can of course ask Kejardon as well. I informed him immediately after discovering that trick.
IIRC, Saturn asked me if I had any ideas for making the wall jump work, I asked him if he tried turning around in mid-air as that lowers Samus's hit box immediately after a wall jump. He did that and it worked. Also it seems silly to me that everyone is anxious to claim discoveries for tricks. The tricks have always been there - it's not like it's impossible for someone who doesn't know of it to find it.
Saturn wrote:
Saturn chose not to use this trick because he did not want to spoil it for his any% run. There are quite a few other time savers he intentionally left out of this run for the same reason.
... This seems really stupid. In order to make a later run look better, you sabotage your current run? If you're going to do that, why bother finishing and publishing the current run? At the very least, put it in and just wait to publish it until your any% is done.
Everyone wrote:
There should be more runs for Super Metroid
Everyone Else wrote:
No, there are too many runs for Super Metroid
x_x when people take a website too seriously... Not voting though. I'm a lot more interested in entertainment than speed, so honestly half the movies here really aren't that interesting to me. I'm here more for the analysis and breaking of games. :P
kwinse wrote:
Kejardon wrote:
Kriole wrote:
Samus is damaged by a Rinka in the opening.
That's a script action; no damage. ... it just dawned on me I know way too much about SM.
It took THAT to make you realize?
Player (206)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
Comicalflop wrote:
Ignoring the problem/bad behavior only works for two things: Little toddlers and Birds.
Glad that we share the same opinion on this.
Kejardon wrote:
Except as you just said, everything afterward would change because of the RNG. Maybe it would be faster. Maybe it would be slower. But it almost certainly wouldn't be the same.
Of course it would have a different RNG and therefore different refill drops (most likely worse, so you'd even have to slow down to compensate them) etc. But aside of that, the run would still look identical, using the very same strategies and techs in the end.
Kejardon wrote:
IIRC, Saturn asked me if I had any ideas for making the wall jump work, I asked him if he tried turning around in mid-air as that lowers Samus's hit box immediately after a wall jump. He did that and it worked.
It still wasn't as simple as you think. Turning around is the key to make this trick possible, but even that way, you still require maximally optimized subpixel position in both directions (as low and as far away of the wall as possible) before making the final walljump to not hit the top platform. Definitely a TAS only trick because of that.
Kejardon wrote:
In order to make a later run look better, you sabotage your current run?
Not using the few new techs I was aware of doesn't mean I sabotaged anything. I already said that I think the old techs look cooler anyway, so this stylistic choices only add up to the entertainment level of the run. And since I still got the lowest possible completion time, it doesn't matter much anyway. Besides in the case of the OTES climb strategy, I used the new tech during the Zebes escape anyway, so instead of showing the same strategy 2 times, this choice gives alot more variety in that room again.
See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun
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Not using the few new techs I was aware of doesn't mean I sabotaged anything. I already said that I think the old techs look cooler anyway, so this stylistic choices only add up to the entertainment level of the run.
Nowhere in your submission comments are speed vs entertainment trade-offs mentioned, so yes, you were indeed sabotaging your run.
And since I still got the lowest possible completion time, it doesn't matter much anyway.
Why do you care so much about the in-game completion time to the point where you deem the lack of optimization in the early part of your run to be forgivable? I can’t really vote on this submission despite having watched it, though I wouldn’t want this run to be published until the optimization level of the run is consistent and no tricks are purposely omitted. I’m not in the same boat as people who think there’s too many SM runs, as I really wouldn’t mind both a NBMB and a 14% run on the site, they just have to be on par with the publications of other SM runs on this site from a technical standpoint. Edit: Also, if this gets any consideration for publication, then those submission comments need to be fixed, as that level of arrogance is embarrassing to the site. Bragging about his own run, constantly stating absolutes, comparing the level of entertainment of his own run to others, etc... although this should be mind numbingly obvious.
Mitjitsu
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Could the judges please make a decision. I feel most of the relevant arguments have been put forward, despite the comments that were related to the author.
Player (206)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
I see, the poor hater seem to focus on this few meaningless tricks missing at the very beginning (most of which I wasn't even aware of at the time I recorded it) instead on 90% of the new and ground breaking stuff nobody ever performed before that truly shaves off alot of time in this run, not to mention the fact that it would pwn moozooh's 14% TAS by "several minutes". How pitiful. But anyway, there is still a yet not fully explored category left: The RBO run. Should I once again be the first to seriously TAS it from scratch knowing that fellow SM-TASer won't dare to do it on their own, just like it was with this run? And then receive similar shit for the true, original effort done on it? I just hope it won't continue this one-sided way where only one does the work while everybody else ends up copying it in the end.
Vykan12 wrote:
Bragging about his own run, constantly stating absolutes, comparing the level of entertainment of his own run to others, etc... although this should be mind numbingly obvious.
Since when does stating the facts about the run (which I should know best doing countless tests in both, route and strategies) being considered bragging? Sorry, I just wanted to let everybody know by how much this run is improvable at most. Didn't expect that some weirdos still have a problem with that...
See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun
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I see, the poor hater seem to focus on this few meaningless tricks missing at the very beginning (most of which I wasn't even aware of at the time I recorded it) instead on 90% of the new and ground breaking stuff nobody ever performed before that truly shaves off alot of time in this run, not to mention the fact that it would pwn moozooh's 14% TAS by "several minutes". How pitiful.
Trying to minimize the importance of the missed tricks in the first half of the run does not make it go away. I do sympathize somewhat that there is that effect of tricks being discovered as you perform a run, but at some point you must’ve realized that the run was worth restarting because of the sheer frequency of tricks that had been discovered, making your run seem outdated and sloppy in some regards. It’s more the omission of known tricks that bothers me though, and I can’t think of a publication where that’s ever happened aside from speed/entertainment trade-offs.
But anyway, there is still a yet not fully explored category left: The RBO run. Should I once again be the first to seriously TAS it from scratch knowing that fellow SM-TASer won't dare to do it on their own, just like it was with this run? And then receive similar shit for the true, original effort done on it? I just hope it won't continue this one-sided way where only one does the work while everybody else ends up copying it in the end.
So you think you can find groundbreaking, never before seen improvements to Namespoofer’s RBO run? His run was semi-serious, and the fact that you say stuff like TASing from scratch and original effort implies that you think Spoofer’s run was horrible and not worth any consideration when planning the route for a new RBO run and so forth.
Since when does stating the facts about the run (which I should know best doing countless tests in both, route and strategies) being considered bragging? Sorry, I just wanted to let everybody know by how much this run is improvable at most. Didn't expect that some weirdos still have a problem with that...
It’s been said before, but apparently your stubbornness is infallible. Entertainment is subjective, which is why critiquing your own run is obscene. People have already disagreed with you that the 6% run is less entertaining than the 14% run. Stating absolutes is ridiculous considering none of us are omnipotent beings with 100% knowledge about the game, so there is always going to be an uncertainty about what new tricks, glitches, etc may be discovered. What would happen if someone discovered a way to shinespark through doors or walls or allowed samus to travel as far vertically as they wanted to in 1 frame? Maybe this analogy will kick in. What you’re basically doing is like asserting with absolute conviction that there is a God even though there’s no way to rigorously prove or disprove such a claim.
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One reason that people might not want to make Super Metroid-runs is because they are tired of hearing "I can do better, I found this in real time 7 years ago :-)". And no, I am not kidding. Also I think you should change "very high luck manipulation" into "manipulates luck". And believe it or not, I haven't gotten around to even download this submission yet. And I doubt that I will. Also I have seen runs being redone from scratch because something was found in the first stage/third room which might or might not end up faster because of RNG. It takes a whole load of effort and sometimes 100k re-records. But it's worth it. Have fun ignoring the vital parts of this post and only go for the fishy looking sentences!
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
Player (206)
Joined: 2/18/2005
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Vykan12 wrote:
I do sympathize somewhat that there is that effect of tricks being discovered as you perform a run, but at some point you must’ve realized that the run was worth restarting because of the sheer frequency of tricks that had been discovered, making your run seem outdated and sloppy in some regards.
Just to remind, the most new tricks got discovered in 2008, while I basicly finished that run in 2007 (with the exception of the last few rooms during the Zebes escape). Exception are the few tricks hero presented in his any% WIP in the later half of 2007, and yes, I indeed considered to restart after them. The reason I didn't do it is because of the excellent luck I got until then, so even including the tricks in the restarted run, there would still be a good chance that I would end up being slower due to worse refill drops in the end, so I didn't bother.
Vykan12 wrote:
So you think you can find groundbreaking, never before seen improvements to Namespoofer’s RBO run? His run was semi-serious, and the fact that you say stuff like TASing from scratch and original effort implies that you think Spoofer’s run was horrible and not worth any consideration when planning the route for a new RBO run and so forth.
No, that run was great and Spoofer deserves alot of respect for pulling something that hard off as a TAS newbie. But you can't compare his run to a serious, legit RBO because it uses out of room glitches, Grapple Beam etc. As you all know, I would skip both, which will force many additional challenges that have yet to be performed.
Vykan12 wrote:
People have already disagreed with you that the 6% run is less entertaining than the 14% run.
It's actually the excact opposite, which you would know if you'd read this thread. The only person who disagreed on this is Tub.
Cardboard wrote:
One reason that people might not want to make Super Metroid-runs is because they are tired of hearing "I can do better, I found this in real time 7 years ago :-)". And no, I am not kidding.
Yes, that's what you have to expect on a popular game like this. The competition level is very high there, you just have to face it.
Cardboard wrote:
Also I think you should change "very high luck manipulation" into "manipulates luck".
Maybe I should give a better example then: Manipulating 10 out of 10 Supers from the Elite Pirates without entering the pause screen is a chance of "~0.0000323 %" according to Kejardon, which he should know best of us. If that's not a very high luck manipulation that in fact costed me almost a week to get without slowdowns, then I don't know what is.
Cardboard wrote:
And believe it or not, I haven't gotten around to even download this submission yet. And I doubt that I will.
That's up to you. If you want to miss something, don't do it.
See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun
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Saturn wrote:
Cardboard wrote:
Also I think you should change "very high luck manipulation" into "manipulates luck".
Maybe I should give a better example then: Manipulating 10 out of 10 Supers from the Elite Pirates without entering the pause screen is a chance of "~0.0000323 %" according to Kejardon, which he should know best of us. If that's not a very high luck manipulation that in fact costed me almost a week to get without slowdowns, then I don't know what is.
I spent 40000 re-records on one enemy in one of my runs, it took me 4 weeks. I labeled it as "Manipulates luck". It's a matter of if you do it, not the degree of how much you do it. Well whatever.
Saturn wrote:
Cardboard wrote:
One reason that people might not want to make Super Metroid-runs is because they are tired of hearing "I can do better, I found this in real time 7 years ago :-)". And no, I am not kidding.
Yes, that's what you have to expect on a popular game like this. The competition level is very high there, you just have to face it.
Yeah of course. But telling people that they are way worse than you does not help the competition, it leaves a game in a situation where nobody gives a fuck. But yeah, have fun in your paradise of nobody-gives-a-fuck-Land. I'm off.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
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Saturn wrote:
If that's not a very high luck manipulation that in fact costed me almost a week to get without slowdowns, then I don't know what is.
Well there is this, only labeled as "manipulates luck".
Saturn wrote:
The reason I didn't do it is because of the excellent luck I got until then, so even including the tricks in the restarted run, there would still be a good chance that I would end up being slower due to worse refill drops in the end, so I didn't bother.
Well actually since you previously stated that you didn't bother to optimize doors for realtime this would not be a big problem, as pretty much all luck manipulation could be done through adding lag to doors (which most often is possible in just 1-2 frame increments). Spoofers and my new any% run does this and with about half the run done I think that every drop in the game (well very, very close to) has been perfect for ingame play.
Saturn wrote:
But anyway, there is still a yet not fully explored category left: The RBO run. Should I once again be the first to seriously TAS it from scratch knowing that fellow SM-TASer won't dare to do it on their own, just like it was with this run? And then receive similar shit for the true, original effort done on it? I just hope it won't continue this one-sided way where only one does the work while everybody else ends up copying it in the end.
Well we have Kriole and Taco, as far as I know they are still working on (or at least planning to finish) a RBO, with their own route and everything. Also I'd rather see a RBO published here than a 14% run (preferably both though, but not until the rules are more lenient towards multiple categories).
Cardboard wrote:
I spent 40000 re-records on one enemy in one of my runs, it took me 4 weeks.
Might I ask where?
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
adelikat
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Saturn wrote:
Vykan12 wrote:
People have already disagreed with you that the 6% run is less entertaining than the 14% run.
It's actually the excact opposite, which you would know if you'd read this thread. The only person who disagreed on this is Tub.
Make that 2 people who favor the 6% run.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Skilled player (1605)
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
Cpadolf wrote:
Cardboard wrote:
I spent 40000 re-records on one enemy in one of my runs, it took me 4 weeks.
Might I ask where?
Sure. And I can answer as well. The Poison Worm in CotM in the third room which drops a Magic Gauntlet. Looking back, I should have used the first worm for that, oh well!
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
Player (206)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
Cardboard wrote:
Yeah of course. But telling people that they are way worse than you does not help the competition, it leaves a game in a situation where nobody gives a fuck.
I never said anybody is way worse or anything just because I knew a certain trick long ago (where is the problem with stating it how it is?), so no need to invent such stories.
Cpadolf wrote:
Well there is this, only labeled as "manipulates luck".
Where a bot was used to manipulate that luck (who can probaly test millions of variations in a second). It's somewhat different compared to analyzing every variation by hand like I had to.
Cpadolf wrote:
Well actually since you previously stated that you didn't bother to optimize doors for realtime this would not be a big problem, as pretty much all luck manipulation could be done through adding lag to doors (which most often is possible in just 1-2 frame increments). Spoofers and my new any% run does this and with about half the run done I think that every drop in the game (well very, very close to) has been perfect for ingame play.
Manipulating single-drops, as you should know, is much simplier. The Elite Pirates drop 5 ones in one turn each though. I hope it's clear that a 50% and a 0,0000323% chance to get the desired result is not the same here, and "only" adding lag to doors wouldn't help you that much because of that as well. But I'm glad to hear you guys do well on the any% so far.
Cpadolf wrote:
Well we have Kriole and Taco, as far as I know they are still working on (or at least planning to finish) a RBO, with their own route and everything.
Let's hope they won't pull another moozooh, and actually finish that run then. Judging by the great TASing skills this 2 guys lately presented, there might be a chance they indeed manage to get it done as good that I wouldn't have to come up with my own work for this run.
See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun
Joined: 8/9/2004
Posts: 123
Saturn wrote:
Manipulating 10 out of 10 Supers from the Elite Pirates without entering the pause screen is a chance of "~0.0000323 %" according to Kejardon, which he should know best of us.
Umm. The actual chance is (100/256)^10 or 0.00827%. It looks like you have (100/256)^11 / 100. Further, since it's two independent set of drops, you can treat it as two 0.909% chances.
Saturn wrote:
Not using the few new techs I was aware of doesn't mean I sabotaged anything. I already said that I think the old techs look cooler anyway, so this stylistic choices only add up to the entertainment level of the run. And since I still got the lowest possible completion time, it doesn't matter much anyway.
While I would like a run that didn't worry so much about speed and showed off instead, that's not the focus for this site. Even if only the minutes show at the end screen it's not as though the seconds and frames don't exist.
kwinse wrote:
Kejardon wrote:
Kriole wrote:
Samus is damaged by a Rinka in the opening.
That's a script action; no damage. ... it just dawned on me I know way too much about SM.
It took THAT to make you realize?
Skilled player (1444)
Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
Saturn wrote:
Manipulating single-drops, as you should know, is much simplier. The Elite Pirates drop 5 ones in one turn each though. I hope it's clear that a 50% and a 0,0000323% chance to get the desired result is not the same here, and "only" adding lag to doors wouldn't help you that much because of that as well.
What I mean was there there is barely any case where worse luck would affect the ingame time, and in some cases it can probably be improved because of it (I have not watched the entire run in frame advance to see in how many instances luck slowed you down by a frame or two but I presume it happened at least a couple of times). Naturally though there are drops that would not work solely by adding lag through doors (for example, the only place I can currently think of in the upcoming any% run were we where slowed down because of not being able to perfect luck is a few frames at phantoon, simply because our needs where so extreme there), but that is only some very rare cases. And at any rate it could help anyway, adding one frame of lag at a time before the pirate room and then doing all the different drops you can without slowing down, adding another frame and repeat.
Saturn wrote:
Where a bot was used to manipulate that luck (who can probaly test millions of variations in a second). It's somewhat different compared to analyzing every variation by hand like I had to.
Well from what I understood it took several days to test, but to the point. It still manipulates luck as heavily even though it is by a bot, and there are plenty of runs that has spent tens of thousands of rerecords in single rooms anyway (incidentally two my SM runs, the first any% and the one I'm working on now both spent 25k+ rerecords on phantoon, too get good drops), but they are still only labeled as "manipulates luck", because there is not more than that too it. Not that I personally think it matters very much that you wrote it as you did though.
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Mitjitsu
He/Him
Banned User
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
OK I've took the comments I found most amusing or unexpected and created a list of... AKA's top 10 personal highlights In ascending order we have... 1. This misinterpretation is unfortunately a side-effect when trying to tell things how they are 2. Bring back the legit 14%!!!!!!!! 3. Yet another Mr. clueless we have here 4. Very high luck manipulation (especially to get optimal refills) 5. During the making of the run I managed to develop some really cool techs never done before 6. Where a bot was used to manipulate that luck (who can probaly test millions of variations in a second). It's somewhat different compared to analyzing every variation by hand like I had to. 7. Congrats Saturn, you managed to crash my copy of SNES9X twice now. 8. It would certainly fit in the concept demo section 9. You are indeed immune to logical thinking 10. Reason, as you can guess, is because the 14% run just requires some advanced techs which probably nobody dared to perform
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