Ok, this is nothing hot, supergrafx library is only composed of ... 7 games! :p
Granzort is a small plateform game, taking advantage of supergraphx capacitys by using 2 scrolling at the same time (woooho!)
I have no clue whats the story is about (if any...), since theres not a single line of dialogue or whatever, i think granzort is a japanesse manga (with robots), but that all i know
Its far away from ghouls'n'ghosts greatness (the big hit on sgx), but its quite a good game, very hard too (never could beat it myself back when i was a kid...)
You have control of 3 robots that you can swap with run button, eatch robot having his own abilitys and weapons.
Red have a sword and earthquake attack, Green have a bow and wings, Blue got a stick and a super shield.
Theres 2 button, attack and jump, if you hold the button (jump for green, attack for others) you start the ability.
Basicly I take green one for stages using his wings to speedup, blue one for bosses with tricky shield attack, except last boss where i need red.
Like in mario, you die from any hit, and you can jump on ennemys heads.
You get power up like in rtype, but its limited to 3, i dont die so i pick em up only in stage1.
Theres another kind of power up, purple stones, basicly its like mario mushrom, you can get hit 1 time after picking it up.
I do get hit to save time, you get a sort of boost, this is limited by number of purple stone on the way.
There is also gold stones, those give you temporary invulnerability, you still get "tossed" by ennemys, but that doesnt kill you.
I dont use gold stones since they are not realy on the way, also its kinda useless for speedrunning this game, purple stones sound enought.
Theres no shop or whatever, its a very basic game, theres not much place for improvement beside frame whoring or finding some zip or whatever, tough its so simply made, i doubt theres much place for glitching.
Theres is a input code at title screen for level selector, that way you could be in stage7 directly... i hope this will not be allowed.
Stage6 by itself is 1/3 of movie lenght... silly level designers.
Ah yeah, the rerecord count vanished for some misterious reasons... i got ~1100 backups file so it should be the real ammount.
Hope youll all enjoy :D
Ill try to improve the run when i got some free time (theres probably place for improvements), but i doubt somebody else gonna give it a try that why im submiting directly.
mmbossman: I found this somewhat entertaining, but I am rejecting it due to the level of play. Several people in the thread have posted about sections of play that seem sloppy, and I particularly found the platforming areas (i.e. the sections that weren't flown over) full of bumping into walls. I think this will be a publishable game, but it will take a more refined version than this.
arukAdo: righto, 6 months latter... i putted more efforts toward a faster run.
adelikat: Replacing with a .mc2 file. Same movie, different file format.
Umm... It somewhat looks like you play real time.
You miss a billion shots, and it doesn't look intended to be that way.
Some of the bosses looks improvable too, but as I have never before played this game, I don't really know to good.
I did not finish watching this. Looks like you can improve it a lot before re-submitting.
Cheers
Yeah like i mentioned theres place for improvement, unless there a zip or something major i didnt saw i doubt for "huge" or "lots" of optimizations tought
I dont miss shoots, and i doubt you can improve the bosses, since i pwn them
On another hand i shoot one or two times nowhere, yeah, probly look silly, didnt tough would matter, but just for the sake of saying it, i kill what, 3 or 4 ennemys on the run, i kill some by jumping on theirs heads, but with arrows only very fews, i dont see what you mean by intended, its not intended to fly the whole game rather than fighting monsters too... but it goes faster for sure
Now try to play this game... real time... and yeah... youll see that all im doing is stricly impossible
Actually i owned that game back then, and i pretty much know what im talking about, i never beated it without using the level selector code, its a very hard game (no continues... 1hit'n'die...), also the way im flying is unrealistic in real time conditions, if you pay attention most times i dont realy loose MPs and fly some obviously too long distances
The sick gravity effect of jumps make head killing near impossible in real time, or more a matter of luck than skills, they are much less tolerent than with mario
Not speaking of bosses... where you do those sicks jump on theirs heads... yeah try real time to see :p
Also, why do i need to resubmit... its not even been judged, and you know it take some time anyway.. so lets say tonight i make a 50 frame faster version and what, i resubmit it? ... bleh... not to make my bitch but your remark was lame anyway
I have to agree its not super mega entertaining, its a small game done fast, with a near inexistant ending :p
Thanks for the note, i think your rating more apropriate than whoever putted 5/5 less than 10 min after i posted it lol
That would be me, putting low scores.
The missed shots I was referring to can be found ~0:58 into your youtube encode. It really looks like when you waste the first boss, the rest of the shots fly straight through him?
I don't really count missed shots as where you just pull the trigger for fun, even though I strongly advice not to do so, unless it is for manipulation somehow.
Even how hard a game might be to play, it sure sucks when it looks poorly made, even with save states and slowdown.
Until you can convince me that those shots, for example, are for the better, my score will stay low for this run. Sorry. But I strongly advice not to be discouraged or demotivated by my words. Instead, try to do something great out of that. I don't mean to be rude or anything. It's just how things appear to me.
No you just sayd to resubmit the movie while your not a judge... that very kind indeed, anyway, im not submiting this to get cheered up, and i already stated up ill try to improve this run on submition text
As for the rest of the shoots on boss1, they go trough him coz his dead, and that i wait for the next level to come up, now sadly i cant "dance" like in most nes games... yeah its sad huh...
Complain i do things that are not necesarry yeah, i hope you will do that on any video, coz you know like me, most have "waiting" times or such, dancing is not needed, but that not a reason to reject a movie neither i think
If it was you who noted reckless, i realy checked, you didnt had time to watch fully the encode, it was about 5min after i posted, and its asked to watch FULLY before noting, on the very top of the page, just above the note buttons...
I think Highness's main point is that you should only be using as many bullets as it takes to kill an enemy. Sometimes when you deal with an enemy with many hitpoints, you keep firing until the enemy starts exploding, but that means that some of your bullets are pointless. This is a stylistic thing -- it doesn't affect your speed at all unless there's lag, but it makes the run look sloppy.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Generaly shooting mean you fly, since if you walk you stop to shoot, i didnt realy took care about it since it doesnt coz lag (apparently?!?) and that it doesnt make me loose time
I wont say its bad to count bullets, its good, and yeah, i didnt counted them, that true (for few times i realy use arrows)
I watched the rest just to give it a chance. Of course I skipped the levels that I previously watched.
In those levels that I now watched, you miss more shots, stay to kill enemies (not sure why in some parts, maybe waiting for some door to open elsewhere? Some sound can be heard at least), bump into edges which makes your pace slower.
Movement is not optimal
You still miss shots
I will give you credit for pwning the hydra(?) boss though. That was probably the most cool thing throughout the entire run.
About me not being a judge - This is completely correct. I am not a judge, but I still have the power to vote, like in any other democracy, and hence give the judges an idea of what I think of the run. :)
The judges can then consider the comments, and the scoring, when they make the final judgment.
I could point out exactly where all your flaws and mistakes, that I can spot, are if you want to. This will take a while though.
No need for your help, im fine and i know where its improvable, your statements are pointless and just reflecting you never played the game, and noting before watching fully a 9 min run (at least for re3... i could understand... its over 1 hour) ... actually all is pretty much sayd
Yeah its democraty, that why i can put myself 10/10 and would negate half your vote, who cares realy... not me at least.. i highly doubt they check what note YOU speficaly putted for this movie, rather the general opinion
I dont miss any shoots... again... but i shoot more than its needed... that correct
Theres some troubles on movements in stage 6, but not on "bumping edges", try the game if you want to realy see whats improvable
I think i wait 3 times in stage 6, one coz you cant do in a single jump/fly the huge pit, and 2 others coz theres an ennemy who would kill me if i go too fast, i wait for them to let me pass trough
Ah, and for the sake of whoping your post again, i kill "hydra" same way than boss in stage2... jumping over his head and using shield... note i could do that in stage4 boss too, but its kinda useless since i can just stand in front of that boss
Why are you getting so defensive?.. When you publicize your work, you are bound to open it to others' criticism. While you could use the advice to improve it, you're basically saying "I know it's improvable, and you have no right to tell that to me".
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
I'm glad to hear that you are satisfied about your run, since that is what counts more, but this site is eager for perfection, and mainly entertainment.
I took the liberty to point out some of the spots where it is obvious, even though I have never ever played the game, where you make what I would like to call mistakes.
Since I have never played the game before, and that I can spot this so obvious, I think it is even more of an issue, since someone who actually played this, might think the same thing?
Note that the times are estimates since youtube does not provide a frame counter, and even if they did, I think it holds less fps right, thus it would be worthless?
Again I did not go through the entire video. I will leave that to you instead. :)
Here are my pointers at least.
Stage 1
~00:09 - Shooting without hitting anything.
~00:23 - Shooting without hitting anything.
~00:24 - Shooting eventhough enemy is dead.
~00:27 - Shooting without hitting anything.
~00:46 - Shooting without hitting anything.
~00:58 - Continue to fire eventhough boss is dead.
Stage 2
~01:36 - Shooting without hitting anything.
~01:42 - Shooting without hitting anything. (May appear as landing shots on enemies behind)
~01:44 - Shooting without hitting anything.
~01:45 - Shooting without hitting anything.
Stage 3
~02:24 - Bumps into an edge, making you slow down.
~02:25 - Bumps into an edge, making you slow down.
~02:27 - Bumps into an edge, making you slow down.
~02:28 - Questionable if you need to stop on the platform?
~02:38 - Shooting without hitting anything.
~02:41 - Continue to fire eventhough enemy is dead.
~02:45 - Shooting without hitting anything.
Cheers.
Why are you getting so defensive?.. When you publicize your work, you are bound to open it to others' criticism. While you could use the advice to improve it, you're basically saying "I know it's improvable, and you have no right to tell that to me".
Im saying rather its pointless since i obviously stated it in submition text, i guess i would have say "find me optimizations plz" if i where needing some idea of where and how to make them
Actually im saying that also coz highness claim he didnt played the game, his whole analys kinda pointless to me because of that, im not hypocrit to the point saying thx for the useless infos on a game you never even played..
Im open to sugestion... if you play the game at least... speaking for the sake of speaking is ... pointless
Look that list he made... does it save frames... no... its about shooting or edges bump, witch he would need to realy try to know if its improvable or not..
Ah and seriously moozoh, why is it asked to watch fully the run if its not to give a chance to note correctly, you can say im on defensive, kinda true, but that not just for the sake of been an ass
Don't forget that this site provides entertaining videos for all people, not only to those that have played the games featured on it.
1. Why do you so adamantly dismiss Highness's opinion on the run even if he hasn't played the game? Does that mean he can't spot obvious mistakes that you even admit to have made?
2. If there are so many improvements that you know yourself, why not implement them first and then submit?
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
1. no , but for the current status, it doesnt improve the run, if you play the game, then you know you dont loose time shooting at nothing, that my point, now if shooting 10% too much in a movie is a "mistake", well... what can i say...
2. Well, only highness claim theres "so" many improvement, i dont for myself, i dont think i will catch up thousand of frames if i rerun it
Yeah i undestood, but i think you understood too that theres a slight difference between looking sloopy, and looking improvable (like it would suggest i wasted the hell thousand of frames by shooting like a retard nowhere)
I havent been defensive on that matter, just i dont get how could one note 5/5 and give pitty argument on optimization while he never played the game, and didnt even watched fully... anyway... doesnt realy matter after all
When i got some free times (mostly weekends) i will polish it like i sayd, nothing "major" or worthing a new submition will emerge tough, that certain
Shoots can probly be hex removed within minutes and small work, since they dont influct whatsoever
Edit:
moozooh wrote:
Don't forget that this site provides entertaining videos for all people, not only to those that have played the games featured on it.
Ah about that, i cant help but to say again this system (supergrafx i mean) only have 7 games, the best been ghouls'n'ghosts, witch is probably a lot harder/longer to tas than this one, the rest are basicly shoot'em'up
This game is probably the less popular/know/played game on workbench for now, less than dragon egg even, since its require supergrafx, witch was much less available than others nec products
I happen to be enought lucky to had one back then, cant help but felt like in a hurry to tas granzort, since its short and that i know it well
For myself, im happy that the site tend toward diversity and opening to new systems rather than staying in nes'ish attitude, sadly, all systems are not popular, and thanksfully pcengine is a good system
Its not last time youll see unknow or not popular games with the grow in systems (witch can imply played only by the taser...)
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
Could you elaborate on the rules of the game physics (the blue wings (bubbles?)). From what I saw it looked as if it could be quite complex to get maximum X velocity while controlling the Y velocity. Your movement never seemed to follow any sort of frame-based pattern which leads me to believe that usage was random. I also noticed a quite a few of the things mentioned above.
I have not voted yet, but at the moment my verdict is a 6/4. The latter may change upon new information.
P.S. No I haven't played this game.
Ill try
Horizontal velocity is quite complex to deal with, while "flying" at least
Main problem is rather the MP
When you use bubles (well i tough wings was more suited), you consume MP bar
The usage been random... hum, no, i try to keep spending the less MP i can, while still raising enough Y to "fly" and not fall too low on ground (well, since i do fly most of the time on open areas)
Im short on MP more than once, your not suppose to fly that much, well apparently your not suppose to do that... see the lack of monsters in air on stage 1 after all life bonus for exemple
I had to restart several portions just coz i end up too low on MP
Using it straightforward cost more MP than making yoyo
If you reach 0MP the ability is disabled until 1/3 is refill
I tryed to use some "fixed pattern" in level 1, with the result been im too much "high" at end :p
I generaly curve for getting lower and i try not to use too long bubles for managing MP
I wont pretend i know everything on this game physics, far from that, but if someone wants to give it a try, ill be more than happy to get a "real" fixed pattern yeah
Edit: ah i forgot, after you let go jump (stop using bubles), it doesnt matter if you press back jump 1 frame or 10 frames after, both way the game will restart bubles only 20 frames after last frame you stoped it
On another matter, if you where wondering, just walking in most cases went slower where i tested it, altough, velocity is not "lot" slower while walking
Stage 6 doesnt completly obey to this tought (the floor is ice made, and seem to give same velocity than flying)
If you shoot while walking you get a stop movement, i already sayd it, but i will add there that the bow is realy weak, if its not much a problem in firsts stages, later one anyway you need to shoot ennemys more than bosses themselves, im pretty confident flying the best way around overall
I'm rating this 5/3.
This looks very much like a real-time speedrun by a skilled player, but it's not TAS Quality.
Count your shots, refine your movement, test ship selections, and so on.
Also, an improvement doesn't have to be large to be important... could you imagine refining another frame off of the SMB TAS?
I had this game, and it, along with Lightning Force (GEN) top the list of games I've annihilated with glee.
I'm voting deny, because there are only a couple things in this run I couldn't do in real time, as far as maneuvering goes, and the lack of refinement in the movement, considering that this is supposed to be a view of perfection, is just laziness.
EDIT: Sorry to be so hard on you. It's really a good run, compared to most normal speedruns. I do want to see a run of this be improved and submitted, though!
You have my honest support, if you do spend more time on it.
"If any man is not free, then I too, am a small pie made of chicken"
The wall bumps annoy me. I really don't care about a little extra shooting but it's really noticable and looks like it wasn't optimized at all. My main problem with this run is that it bores me to tears. The levels are way too boring.
Also at around the 9 minute mark you land all the way against the right wall and then go left. Seems like it would be faster to land as far left as possible. Lots of the landing and movement looks questionable. It doesn't look like frame advance was employed to the full extent possible. Perhaps finding memory addresses for X and Y can improve this.
Voting 4/5.
there are only a couple things in this run I couldn't do in real time.
That bullshit
Also for the record, im shit at real time, like i sayd i never finished that game from start, its too hard for me (well it was too hard... its a nearly 20 years old game now...)
zdude255 wrote:
The levels are way too boring.
Cant do much about that, tought i can agree it isnt ultra entertaining game, i did already sayd that but well
zdude255 wrote:
Also at around the 9 minute mark you land all the way against the right wall and then go left. Seems like it would be faster to land as far left as possible.
I think you mean the jump at last boss pit, i cant be as far left as possible... since its scripted... im given back control when im in front of boss
I did runned several test on stage1... i couldnt realy save any frames up to boss so far, i tested different strategy like walking/dont use wings and it was like when i started the tas... just a bit slower
Nobody pointed out a real improvement, that is obvious, and just based on observation rather than speculate on things you cant know unless you give a try, well probably somes ppl think im on defensive but this wasnt mentioned at all
On stage7 i start already with "silver" armor (purple stone powerup), and i get one in the stage, but, i dont use them to get a "toss" boost...
