Here we go after 5 years there is a new Super Smash Bros 64 run.
I decided to make a new one because it was a pain to see the old TAS so unoptimized and i really had the motivation to start a new one, and here it is.
To avoid desync i recommend to playback to movie file on the "mupen64-rerecording v8" version.
The video plugin i used for the encode was "Glide64'Napalm WX' release 1" it's the best plugin for Super Smash Bros 64, and removes a lot of graphic errors + your characters bright if they get hit by an attack.
But hope you enjoy the TAS.
A few information's about the TAS:
I used the Japanese rom because, Kirby's movements is in the Japanese version faster compared to the English American one, (walking, jumping, falling etc)
I took damage to avoid getting extra points, so i saved at the end one extra window + a few frames each time i found a good chance to take damage, but obviously it's not faster everywhere of course.
I set the timer from having 5 minutes to infinite time, to avoid getting extra points for having time left after a match + the next fight starts faster.
I am pretty satisfied with the end result, i saved over 30 seconds to my old TAS record from 2009 by better RNG manipulation like Yoshi Team, Fox, Kirby Team, Metal Mario, Polygons and Master Hand + more optimization, a few strategies looks similar to the old record, but small changes saved often like 20 frames, example Mario Bros match or Samus, the fights are using similar ways but through some movement changes i could manage to save time though. I'd like to post a chart with the time differences to my old TAS record, but unfortunately i lost the .m64 file over the years.
Link
This match didn't use any different movement compared to the old TAS record. Only better optimization.
Yoshi Team
In this fight i saved most time by better RNG manipulation for the appears, with different movements and positions you can manipulate in which site the Yoshi will enter the area.
Fox
This fight was really a pain, it took forever to manipulate Fox to make the right movements to get a chance to kill him fast. Difference compared to the old record is that i switched Kirby's face direction for the Final Cutter technique.
Break the Targest
Committed suicide to save time.
Mario Bros
I think this fight is the best part of the TAS. I re-did this fight without joking like 5 times until i was satisfied, and i saved a lot of time to the old record, + i found out different attacks saved a bunch of time.
Pikachu
On this battle i didn't change anything, same RNG manipulation that Pikachu runs immediately to me.
Giant Donkey Kong
Oh Giant Donkey Kong, this fight is complete different, the old strat was to suck Giant Donkey Kong with Kirby's B attack and standing on the corner and wait until a computer is pushing you of the ledge, but i figured out with my brother that it's a lot faster if Giant Donkey Kong commit suicide. Also is this the first battle where i found a good chance for taking damage, and to reduce to get extra points
Board the Platforms
Committed suicide to save time.
Kirby Team
A painful fight, unfortunately you can't kill Mario Kirby first, because he won't die if you go and take care of him first.(Kirby's won't die if you attack them in the middle of the stage.) But i am satisfied with the RNG manipulation and the movement here.
Samus
In this fight i am using the exact same movement to kill Samus, i just saved a few frames by avoiding some hits with Kirby's down A attack in the air, before Samus hits the poison lava.
Metal Mario
This is a fight where i am really unsure if the RNG manipulation is good, i tested a lot of stuff to make Metal Mario move from the platform but it's really harder than it looks like, i came with the strat that he is leaving his platform really fast, when you're walking slowly to the ledge instead of jumping or running. This was the best manipulation i could do.
Race to the Finish
It's not a secret that Kirby isn't the fastest character if it comes to running. But it's pretty forgiving, since he finishes the battles faster than the others.
Polygon Team
Like at Metal Mario, a painful battle to TAS, the fight is fast, but Jigglypuff, Kirby, Pikachu, and Ness Polygons flying often out of the stage and dying as a star in the background if you hit them to high in the air, that's why my movement looks sometimes pretty weird.
Masterhand
Just perfect. Killed him in 2 turns. I didn't expect that the fight would looks so awesome at the end.
Nach: Very nice run, it's so fast, you can hardly believe it. Some feedback was mixed, but in the end, it seems this is entertaining enough for its length. Accepting as an alternate fastest run for this game.
I just watched this one, and then compared it to the currently published run for reference. This run wins on speed, sure, but the published run clearly destroys it in terms of entertainment provided.
No vote.
I was reasonably entertained, but I agree that the current Moon run is way better in that regard.
No vote on entertainment, but this is perfect for the Vault.
I was always hoping to see an optimized speed-TAS of this game submitted here and this one did not disappoint. It was fun seeing Kirby destroy absolutely everything, yes vote!
Please do not let this TAS obsolete the published one, treat the other one as a playaround.
My only complaint would be the use of Mupen.
Current project: Gex 3 any%
Paused: Gex 64 any%
There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
The author is very clearly aiming for a speed TAS (i.e. this is not an attempt to obsolete the much slower-paced current publication).
Speaking as someone who isn't really into N64 Smash Bros., it does seem quite fast, but I didn't find it all that interesting. At least it avoids the common problem many speed-oriented fighting game TASes have of there being one optimal combo that gets used in every single fight in exactly the same way. Instead everyone just gets ring-out'd as quickly as possible, but tactics for that at least vary somewhat.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
I agree with Atma and boct. Yes, it's faster (and significantly) but this isn't a superplay as I would expect from a fighting game.
Plus, I'm a total sucker for a completed "Break The Targets!", which this run doesn't complete.
Great candidate for vault, though.
Edit: It should also be noted that the publishing comment by mmbossman on the previous TAS says "Future runs will be judged by the entertainment value and mastery of the game, rather than the final completion time. "
Granted, this was long before the tiered system we now use, but even so. This run shouldn't obsolete the currently published one, but should be noted as a non-superplay.
I really appreciate your guys true opinions.
It's kinda hard to make a TAS of SSB64's 1-Player Mode which is entertaining and super fast, i tried my best, but there is no place for cool combos and stuff if you aim for saving every frame you can.
andypanther wrote:
My only complaint would be the use of Mupen.
Is using Mupen that oldschool? Sorry for this kind of a stupid question.
Don't misunderstand, Dennis! I believe we're all in agreement that the run should be published, just that we don't think its entertainment value is as high as the previously published movie. In days of old, that would be problematic, but not that we have the tiered structure of TASes, we benefit from being able to publish branches that wouldn't normally have been published. After all, the question we're answering is if we found it entertaining or not.
DennisBalow wrote:
andypanther wrote:
My only complaint would be the use of Mupen.
Is using Mupen that oldschool? Sorry for this kind of a stupid question.
I think that Mupen was found to be inaccurate in its emulation, so we prefer BizHawk. Furthermore, if I remember correctly, BizHawk also has TAS tools built-in. I don't know for certain, as I've never TASed.
EDIT: for further reference, you can visit this website.
What if we make the current run have a playaround category?
DennisBalow, Mupen is now deprecated, so I hope you can use BizHawk next time. :D
Do NOT cancel this though, wait a while to see what's the final veredict and this could have a chance for a publication.
This run was really well done, but lacks entertainment, going to vote meh. Wasn't as horrible as other fighting games which aim for time.
The published playaround TAS could also get an update.
I think that Mupen was found to be inaccurate in its emulation, so we prefer BizHawk. Furthermore, if I remember correctly, BizHawk also has TAS tools built-in. I don't know for certain, as I've never TASed.
EDIT: for further reference, you can visit this website.
Thanks for the link.
I really didn't know that we use BizHawk for N64 TASes from now on, if i would have known that before i wouldn't have submitted this TAS. I am a SM64 TASer and we kind stick strong to mupen64 for some reasons, nobody there is switching (Sorry for quick topic change).
Kurabupengin wrote:
DennisBalow, Mupen is now deprecated, so I hope you can use BizHawk next time. :D
Do NOT cancel this though, wait a while to see what's the final veredict and this could have a chance for a publication.
Like i said i really didn't know we have to use BizHawk from now on, i kinda feel stupid for that.
But if it's not likely seen, i am fine with taking this submission down. I don't wanna that they making an exception for me, everyone should be treated equally, and if i didn't know that, its definitely my own fault.
mupen64 isn't fully banned yet, your run can still be published.
Or you can try to convert your m64 file to bk2 with an m64_reader lua script in bizhawk.
Nice! I don't see why we shouldn't have a run both for entertainment and for speed, even if the latter ends up in Vault.
On Nico deleting TAS vids, I have a "WR Smash64 1P Mode (TAS) in 0:05:44" video saved here from some time ago, was it the "lost run"? The time doesn't match but it could be counted differently or something.
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I voted Yes for entertainment, and I'd like to explain why. I had not recently watched the existing run so when I watched this today I was unbiased. I think people are overlooking how clever some of the elements of *this* TAS are - in particular, for a speed oriented TAS, this is very entertaining. The method used to dispatch each enemy is generally unique and often funny (although a few enemies are indeed dispatched with the same general tactic). I subsequently re-watched the existing publication and while I found it enjoyable for the different tactic it took with using Samus as a ping-pong ball I actually prefer this newer submission because it is a tighter execution.
I am in favor of leaving the existing publication as a playaround and publishing this (entertaining in my opinion) run as a separate speed-oriented category, despite the earlier statements in that publication's comments. While fighting games can often be flat out boring, this run is quite entertaining, especially to those of us who have played it, and I'd hate to see this relegated to the vault on a technicality.
Great work - keep it up!
Rejecting this movie since it is clearly un-optimal by today's standards. An already faster TAS by DennisBalow using Kirby has been posted on YouTube in 2009. A new and faster submission using (most likely Kirby) would probably be accepted for the vault tier. Until then, it is meaningless to publish this as it fails to beat known records.
I think 1P TASes are boring. Even the published one was rather uninteresting to me...
Someone just make a 4 player 99 stock video and optimize that for entertainment. Now that would be something I would really like to see, same for SSBM. Use all controller ports and be creative!
Does Bizhawk run N64? Does it support branching between controllers?
I am in favor of leaving the existing publication as a playaround and publishing this (entertaining in my opinion) run as a separate speed-oriented category, despite the earlier statements in that publication's comments. While fighting games can often be flat out boring, this run is quite entertaining, especially to those of us who have played it, and I'd hate to see this relegated to the vault on a technicality.
I think some of the issue at hand is that the previous video is already in the Moons category.
So we're left with the following questions:
1. Is this video entertaining enough (without considering the previous submissions or the history of this game on this site) to be put into Moons or Stars?
2. Is this video more entertaining than the previous submission which is currently in Moons?
In my opinion, the answer to both of these is no. Thus, this video must be relegated to the vault, barring any technicality.
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dwangoAC wrote:
...I'd hate to see this relegated to the vault on a technicality.
Just because the run is a vault category does not mean it has to go to the Vault. If viewer response is good enough, both current runs can coexist in Moons just nicely, unless there is a consensus for this run to obsolete the other one (which there doesn't seem to be). The runs do not need to be separated by tiers.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
I expected people to be more one-sided than that. I can see the point of wanting more superplays in those kind of game, but I really liked what you did. It's a clear yes vote for me
I might be spoiled by competitive smash, but imo the reliance on nair and up+b meteor smashes makes most of it boring. Vs Samus was a nice exception.
Meh vote.
Yes vote. Even though the previous one is more entertaining, this one is good enough on its own for moons category. With it being around 5 minutes it doesn't have much chance to get too repetitive.
Yes vote for Moons; I found the speed entertaining and not really repetitive at all. Abstaining from considering whether it should be its own branch or should obsolete the current SSB64 movie.
Edit: After watching both movies back to back, I would not want this run to obsolete the current movie. I would say they're both entertaining on their own merits, and deserve to be published side by side.
