Arm Wrestling is an arcade game by Nintendo, released in 1985. It is Nintendo's final entry in the "Green-Haired Guy" trilogy, and the last arcade game designed by Nintendo. The arcade market's loss would be the game console market's gain, however, as Shigeru Miyamoto, Koji Kondo, and company would soon revitalize the U.S. game console industry. In an interesting twist, this same arcade cabinet design would later be repurposed as Playchoice-10 cabinets to promote Nintendo's home console games at the arcade! As with Punch-Out!! and Super Punch-Out!!, Arm Wrestling again features the familiar dual-monitor design, digitized speech, and early hardware sprite scaling. Notably, among the digitized audio samples can be heard dialogue clips of Keye Luke's voice-over as Han from the 1973 film Enter the Dragon. The original voice samples are comical and...inscrutable. Like its predecessors, the game also features another assortment of zany, wildly expressive opponents, including a surprise from a familiar face! Having mastered the world of professional boxing, the Hero has decided to also conquer the high-stakes world of professional arm wrestling. To complete the game, the Hero must win 20 rounds in order to bankrupt a crooked promoter.

Game Objectives

  • Emulator used: MAME-RR v0.139 v0.1-beta
  • Aims for fastest game completion
  • Aims for maximum score without sacrificing Frames
  • Abuses programming errors
  • Manipulates luck
  • Entertains without sacrificing Frames
  • "Gentlemen, let the tournament begin!"

DIP Switch Settings

  • Difficulty set to Hardest
  • Coinage set to Free Play
  • Rematches set to 3

Tricks and Glitches

Manipulate "Ready" Timer:
Before a Round begins, the word "Ready" appears in front of the Opponent. If the Hero attempts a Left Press before "Ready" has been cleared from the screen, the Hero incurs a Foul for a Flying Start. The duration that "Ready" remains on the screen is random, and can be manipulated. There are numerous possible results. The range of variance in duration is quite large (as much as 127 Frames, depending on the Opponent). Manipulation can be achieved by random input or by Frames of delay.
For Round 1, manipulation input must be entered on the Frame prior to pressing the Button on "END" on the Name Entry screen. Only input entered on this Frame will manipulate the "Ready" timer. Joystick Up input can be entered 1 Frame earlier (Frame 101) than Right or Left input (Frame 102). As such, pressing Up on Frame 101 is the only option for input manipulation that does not require additional Frames.
For a Round vs. Texas Mac other than Round 1, manipulation input may be entered during or after the first Left Press input of the previous Round. The last possible Frame of input for manipulation is the Frame immediately following the final input of the previous Round. Only input entered during these Frames will manipulate the "Ready" timer for a Round vs. Texas Mac.
For Round 2, manipulation input may be entered during or after the first Left Press input of the previous Round. The last possible Frame of input for manipulation is the Frame immediately following the final input of the previous Round. Only input entered during these Frames will manipulate the "Ready" timer for Round 2.
For all other Rounds, manipulation input may be entered during or after the first Left Press input. The last possible Frame of input for manipulation is the Frame immediately prior to the transition to the next Round. This allows a much larger window for entering manipulation input. Entering manipulation input is also simpler because it can all be entered after the Round has been completed, without needing to overlap input during the Round itself. Only input entered during these Frames will manipulate the "Ready" timer.
Manipulate Opponent AI:
When the Hero attempts a Left Press against an Opponent, the Opponent may react in a number of different ways. By entering random input, the Opponent can be manipulated to react in the most favorable manner. Manipulation input may generally be entered before, during, or after the Left Press input. Certain Opponent abilities require that manipulation input must be entered before or during the Left Press input.
Manipulate Resisted Left Press Duration:
If an Opponent resist the Hero's Left Press, the duration of the Hero's Left Press posture is random. By entering random input, the duration of this posture can be manipulated, such that it is the shortest possible. There are only 2 possible results, with a difference of 2 Frames. This is useful against Kabuki 2, 3, and 4 because forcing Kabuki to resist a Left Press allows Kabuki to become vulnerable earlier than by delaying until Kabuki attacks of his own accord.
Manipulate Money Bag:
After Round 2, the money bag can briefly become caught above the POWER meter when the promoter throws it down. If this happens, the transition to the next Round begins 87 Frames later than it normally would. Entering input on the appropriate Frame can prevent the money bag from becoming caught. Allowing the money bag to fall requires 38 Frames fewer than catching it.

Comments

There are many phases during which time does not elapse. This includes Hero abilities (e.g. POWER phase) as well as Opponent abilities (Frank Jr.'s "Wait!" phase).
The Icon formation with 2 Exclamation Marks, 1 Skull and Crossbones, and 2 Double Exclamation Marks requires 1 less Frame to clear than the Icon formation with 1 Exclamation Marks, 1 Skull and Crossbones, and 3 Double Exclamation Marks.
Bonus decreases by 40 once per each 4 Frames.
If Left is pressed on the joystick to cancel "Tap Button" phase, but POWER is not ready, the result is a resist.
Pressing to the left requires 37 Frames for the first press, and 40 Frames for each subsequent press. If the Opponent counterattacks with a special move, the left press can be cancelled by pressing to the right. If the left press is cancelled thus, it requires only 21 Frames overall.
The joystick must be pressed Up in order to catch the money bag that the promoter throws down. The window during which to press Up on the joystick is only 9 Frames in duration. Pressing up on an earlier Frame does not allow the money bag to be caught on an earlier Frame. The money bag is caught (or missed) on a fixed Frame.
If the Opponent counterattacks with a special move, there is no immediate damage to the Opponent.
Getting the first movement against an Opponent does 12 Hit Points of damage.
The closer the Opponent's arm is to being pinned, the less energy he has remaining. If the Opponent's energy reaches 0, the Opponent is defeated. If the Opponent's energy reaches 144, the Hero is defeated.
POWER does 16-64 Hit Points of damage. The closer the opponent's arm is to being pinned, the less damage the Hero can do.
Joystick and Button input during the game requires 2 Frames. Delay between input can be just 1 Frame. Note that this does not apply to input entered during the game's menus. Pulling Mask X's mask requires only 1 Frame of pressing Up per pull. Wiggling the joystick Right and Left in order to interrupt an Opponent's attack requires only 1 Frame of Right or Left input with 1 Frame of delay between. Input can overlap in some cases.
After an Opponent's Hit Points have been reduced to 0, but before his arm has been pinned, Bonus can still be gained.
If the Hero reaches the peak of his jump on the same frame that the promoter lifts the money bag, the money bag will be replaced by the body of the defeated Opponent (which the Hero and the promoter simultaneously possess) for 1 Frame. Unfortunately, this causes the promoter to throw the money bag 1 Frame later than he normally would.
Pressing to the left during "Tap Button!" phase cancels the "Tap Button!" phase. Pressing to the left during "Tap Button!" phase can only cancel the "Tap Button!" phase. The Opponent loses no Hit Points, and no other result can be manipulated.
If an Opponent successfully uses a special attack, the Hero loses 1 or more letter of POWER, depending on the Opponent.
Memory Address 0000D070 indicates the Opponent's Hit Points. At the start of a Round, this has a value of 95-119, depending on the Opponent. When this value reaches 0, the Opponent is defeated. If this value reaches 144 or higher, the Hero is defeated.
Memory Address 0000D0F5 indicates the remaining Time in seconds. At the start of a Round, this has a value of 192. On Hardest Difficulty, 1 second of Time expires per each 41 Frames. On Easy Difficulty, 1 second of Time expires per each 45 Frames. If this value reaches 132, 60 seconds have elapsed, and the Hero is defeated. Time does not elapse during the POWER phase of the game.
Memory Address 0000D041 indicates Hero Status. While Hero Status has a value of 0, the Hero can attempt a Press to the left. During a Press, this has a value of 128. After a Press has been completed, Hero Status returns to a value of 0 for 1 Frame, changes back to a value of 128 for 2 Frames, and finally returns to 0 again and remains at 0. After a Press has been completed, the joystick can be held to the left starting 1 Frame before Hero Status returns to 0 for the 1st time. This is the earliest possible Frame on which to begin the next Press after a previous Press has been completed. If the next Press is not started on this Frame, the next possible Frame is 3 Frames later, when Hero Status returns to 0 for the 2nd time.

The Icons

Exclamation Mark requires 1 Button press to clear. Clearing Exclamation Mark provides points and adds 1 Letter to POWER.
Double Exclamation Mark requires 2 Button presses to clear. Clearing Double Exclamation Mark provides points and adds 2 Letters to POWER.
Dollar Sign requires 1 Button press to clear. Clearing Dollar Sign provides points, but does not increase POWER.
Skull and Crossbones requires 1 Button press to clear. Clearing Skull and Crossbones increases the Opponent's Hit Points and cancels "Tap Button!" phase.
Question Mark requires 1 Button press to clear. Clearing Question Mark randomly causes 1 of 2 possible results. This result can be manipulated. The negative result defeats the Hero. The positive result adds 10 Letters to POWER. It is the ultimate POWER in the universe.

Round By Round Comments

Round 1: Texas Mac

Texas Mac begins the Round with 95 Hit Points.
The range from minimum "Ready" delay to maximum "Ready" delay is 110 Frames.
An ideal result allows the Hero to begin a Left Press 88 Frames after "Ready" appears. The worst possible result allows the Hero to begin a Left Press 198 Frames after "Ready" appears.
Using a Left Press during the first few legal Frames of the Round allows the Hero to take initiative over the Opponent. Input must be entered during the first 9 legal Frames. Doing so will generate 5 Exclamation Marks or 5 Double Exclamation Marks. Entering input within the first 6 Frames will generate Double Exclamation Marks. Entering input during the next 3 Frames will generate Exclamation Marks. If 5 Double Exclamation Marks are generated and all 5 are cleared before the press begins, the press does 64 Hit Points of damage. However, if the press is started before all 5 of the Double Exclamation Marks have been cleared, the press does only 16 Hit Points of damage. Likewise, If 5 Exclamation Marks are generated, the press does 16 Hit Points of damage.

Round 2: Kabuki

Kabuki begins the Round with 119 Hit Points.
The range from minimum "Ready" delay to maximum "Ready" delay is 127 Frames.
An ideal result allows the Hero to begin a Left Press 64 Frames after "Ready" appears. The worst possible result allows the Hero to begin a Left Press 191 Frames after "Ready" appears.
Using a Left Press during the first few legal Frames of the Round allows the Hero to take initiative over the Opponent. Input must be entered during the first 5 legal Frames. Doing so will generate 3 Exclamation Marks and 2 Double Exclamation Marks.
Allowing the money bag to fall requires 38 Frames fewer than catching it.

Round 3: Mask X

Mask X begins the Round with 119 Hit Points.
The range from minimum "Ready" delay to maximum "Ready" delay is 110 Frames.
An ideal result allows the Hero to begin a Left Press 88 Frames after "Ready" appears. The worst possible result allows the Hero to begin a Left Press 198 Frames after "Ready" appears.
Using a Left Press during the first few legal Frames of the Round allows the Hero to take initiative over the Opponent. Input must be entered during the first 5 legal Frames. Doing so will generate 3 Exclamation Marks and 2 Double Exclamation Marks.
Dodging Mask X's headbutt adds 5 letters to POWER.
When Mask X's Hit Points reach 32 or lower, the Hero can attempt to pull Mask X's mask off after dodging his headbutt. Mask X's mask must be pulled 6 times in order to defeat him. Just 1 Frame of Up input is required to pull. Mask can be pulled once per each 5 Frames.
The duration of a headbutt is random, and can be manipulated. There are only 2 possible results, with a difference of 9 Frames. An ideal result allows the Hero to begin a Left Press 54 Frames after forcing the headbutt to begin. The worst possible result allows the Hero to begin a Left Press 63 Frames after forcing the headbutt to begin.

Round 4: Alice & Ape III

Alice & Ape III begin the Round with 95 Hit Points.
The range from minimum "Ready" delay to maximum "Ready" delay is 120 Frames.
An ideal result allows the Hero to begin a Left Press 75 Frames after "Ready" appears. The worst possible result allows the Hero to begin a Left Press 195 Frames after "Ready" appears.
Using a Left Press during the first few legal Frames of the Round allows the Hero to take initiative over the Opponent. Entering input within the first 2 Frames will generate 5 Double Exclamation Marks. Entering input during the next 4 Frames will generate 5 Skull and Crossbones. Clearing Skull and Crossbones increases the Opponent's Hit Points by 48. If all 5 Double Exclamation Marks are cleared before the Press begins, the Press does 64 Hit Points of damage. However, if the Press is started before all 5 of the Double Exclamation Marks have been cleared, the Press does only 32 Hit Points of damage.
When Alice & Ape III's Hit Points reach 31 or lower, Ape III will grab a magnet from offscreen. The Hero has 2 opportunities to grab the magnet. The window during which to press Right on the joystick and successfully grab the magnet is only 8 Frames in duration. If the Hero fails to grab the magnet, he is defeated. Grabbing the magnet provides a Bonus of 10,000 points. Each failed attempt to grab the magnet decreases this Bonus by 1,000 points. If the Hero successfully grabs the magnet, he cleverly directs it against Ape III, causing his right shoulder servomotor to explode dramatically.

Round 5: Frank Jr.

Frank Jr. begins the Round with 95 Hit Points.
The range from minimum "Ready" delay to maximum "Ready" delay is 110 Frames.
An ideal result allows the Hero to begin a Left Press 88 Frames after "Ready" appears. The worst possible result allows the Hero to begin a Left Press 198 Frames after "Ready" appears.
Using a Left Press during the first few legal Frames of the Round allows the Hero to take initiative over the Opponent. Entering input within the first 3 Frames will generate 3 Exclamation Marks and 2 Double Exclamation Marks. Entering input during the next 4 Frames will generate 5 Skull and Crossbones. Entering input during the next 3 Frames after that will generate 5 Dollar Signs. Clearing Skull and Crossbones increases the Opponent's Hit Points.
During the 3rd "Tap Button!" phase, the final Exclamation Mark is not cleared. This saves time because no more than 10 Letters can be possessed simultaneously.
During the 4th "Tap Button!" phase, the final Double Exclamation Mark is not cleared. This saves time because POWER and Double POWER do the same amount of damage when Frank Jr.'s Hit Points are at 38 or lower.
Manipulating "Wait!" attack type 2 as Frank Jr.'s final attack allows him to be defeated 3 Frames earlier than Manipulating "Wait!" attack type 1 as his final attack. However, manipulating "Wait!" attack type 1 as Frank Jr.'s final attack allows the transition to the next Round to start 7 Frames earlier than Manipulating "Wait!" attack type 2 as his final attack.
Frank Jr. has 3 types of attack. In addition to the normal Left Press, he also uses 2 types of "Wait!" attack. "Wait!" attack type 1 is a powerful form of Left Press that does immediate damage and can not be interrupted. "Wait!" attack type 2 has Frank Jr. breathe fire at the Hero's face (brutal!). If the Hero is hit by the fire, he is defeated. Frank Jr. will only use "Wait!" attack type 2 when his Hit Points are at 38 or lower.
The duration of a "Wait!" attack is random, and can be manipulated. Manipulation input may be entered during or after the first Left Press input. The last possible Frame of input for manipulation is 17 Frames after the input to force the "Wait!" attack. After these 17 Frames, Frank Jr.'s "Wait!" Counter is set to a random value from 6 to 13. There are 7 possible results. The range of variance in duration is 56 Frames, in increments of 8 Frames per possible result. An ideal result allows the Hero to begin a Right Press 97 Frames after forcing the "Wait!" attack to begin. The worst possible result allows the Hero to begin a Right Press 153 Frames after forcing the "Wait!" attack to begin.
When Frank Jr.'s Hit Points reach 38 or lower, he will only attempt to use "Wait!" attacks. The type of "Wait!" attack to be used can be manipulated.
When Frank Jr.'s Hit Points are at 39 or higher, countering "Wait!" attack type 1 will generate either 3 Exclamation Marks and 2 Double Exclamation Marks or 5 Double Exclamation Marks. The result of this can be manipulated.
When Frank Jr.'s Hit Points are at 38 or lower, countering "Wait!" attack type 1 will only generate 1-3 Exclamation Marks. Countering "Wait!" attack type 2 will generate 5 Double Exclamation Marks.
When Frank Jr.'s Hit Points are at 38 or lower, he can no longer be damaged by a normal Left Press, though he can still perform the animation as though he had.
When Frank Jr.'s Hit Points are at 39 or lower, POWER and Double POWER do the same amount of damage.
Allowing the money bag to fall requires 31 Frames fewer than catching it.

Round 6: Texas Mac 2

Using a Left Press during the first few legal Frames of the Round allows the Hero to take initiative over the Opponent. Input must be entered during the first 9 legal Frames. Entering input on the 1st Frame will generate 5 Double Exclamation Marks. Entering input on the 2nd Frame will generate a Question Mark. Entering input during the next 7 Frames after that will generate 5 Dollar Signs.
Any POWER Press will defeat Texas Mac.
When Texas Mac's Hit Points are at 95, he can not be damaged by a normal Left Press, though he can still perform the animation as though he had.
If Texas Mac's Hit Points are at 95, he will slowly build up power for 420 Frames and then unleash a devastating Press, setting Opponent Hit Points to 143 (within 1 Hit Point of the Hero's defeat). Even if the Hero avoids Texas Mac's Press, only 1 Exclamation Mark can be generated, and then Texas Mac's Press is immediately resumed.
Using a Double POWER Press against Texas Mac 2 provides double points during the Bonus phase.

Round 7: Mask X 2

Using a Left Press during the first few legal Frames of the Round allows the Hero to take initiative over the Opponent. Input must be entered during the first 5 legal Frames. Doing so will generate 3 Exclamation Marks and 2 Double Exclamation Marks.
Mask X can now do 2 successive headbutts.
Counterattacking a normal Left Press will generate either 2 Exclamation Marks, 2 Double Exclamation Marks, and 1 Skull and Crossbones or 1 Exclamation Mark, 3 Double Exclamation Marks, and 1 Skull and Crossbones. Unlike other Skull and Crossbones, this Skull and Crossbones will change to an Arrow 12 Frames after the previous Icon has been cleared, and the "Tap Button!" phase continues with the next Icon in the queue.

Round 8: Alice & Ape III 2

Using a Left Press during the first few legal Frames of the Round allows the Hero to take initiative over the Opponent. Entering input on the first Frame will generate 5 Double Exclamation Marks. Entering input during the next 2 Frames will generate 5 Skull and Crossbones. Entering input during the next 4 Frames after that will generate 5 Dollar Signs. Clearing Skull and Crossbones increases the Opponent's Hit Points. If all 5 Double Exclamation Marks are cleared before the Press begins, the Press does 64 Hit Points of damage. However, if the Press is started before all 5 of the Double Exclamation Marks have been cleared, the Press does only 32 Hit Points of damage.

Round 9: Frank Jr. 2

Using a Left Press during the first few legal Frames of the Round allows the Hero to take initiative over the Opponent. Entering input on the first Frame will generate 3 Exclamation Marks. Entering input during the next 2 Frames will generate 1 Exclamation Mark. Entering input during the next 7 Frames after that will generate 5 Skull and Crossbones. Clearing Skull and Crossbones increases the Opponent's Hit Points.
Frank Jr. now has the ability to resist a Left Press and simultaneously counterattack. This type of counterattack is so fast, it can damage the Hero before he can even attempt to begin his next Press. Frank Jr. enters this status for a time after the first "Tap Button!" phase. As such, a delay of 29 Frames is necessary before beginning the next Press.
Counterattacking a normal Left Press will generate either 2 Exclamation Marks, 2 Double Exclamation Marks, and 1 Skull and Crossbones or 1 Exclamation Mark, 3 Double Exclamation Marks, and 1 Skull and Crossbones. Unlike other Skull and Crossbones, this Skull and Crossbones will change to an Arrow 12 Frames after the previous Icon has been cleared, and the "Tap Button!" phase continues with the next Icon in the queue.
Unlike Frank Jr.'s first iteration, he will now use attacks other than "Wait!" attacks throughout the Round. This saves a great deal of time.

Round 10: Kabuki 2

Using a Left Press during the first few legal Frames of the Round allows the Hero to take initiative over the Opponent. Entering input during the first 2 Frames will generate 3 Exclamation Marks. Entering input during the next 3 Frames will generate 2 Exclamation Mark.
Counterattacking Kabuki's normal Left Press will generate 5 Dollar Signs.
Kabuki now has a new type of Press. Counterattacking this Press will damage Kabuki and generate 5 Dollar Signs.
It is not possible to collect POWER until the end of the Round. A normal Left Press does only 4 Hit Points of damage, which is not enough to defeat Kabuki within 1 minute. The only method to inflict sufficient damage to defeat Kabuki is to counterattack his new type of Press.
When Kabuki's Hit Points reach 27 or lower, he can no longer be damaged by a normal Left Press or by counterattacking Kabuki's new type of Press. Additionally, the delay before Kabuki uses his new Press is longer, and the window during which to press Left on the joystick to counterattack is reduced from 15 Frames in duration to only 4 Frames in duration. Counterattacking this Press while in this status will generate 2 Dollar Signs and 3 Exclamation Marks.
Similar to Frank Jr. 2, Kabuki enters a special status for a time after the each "Tap Button!" phase. Though Kabuki does not counterattack while he is in this status, he is invulnerable. As such, a delay of 44 or 45 Frames is necessary before beginning the next Press. However, by using a Left Press while Kabuki is in this status and allowing him to resist it, the status is cancelled and a successful Left Press can begin after just 27-39 Frames.

Round 11: Texas Mac 3

This Round is identical to Round 6: Texas Mac 2 except that time elapses a bit more quickly.

Round 12: Mask X 3

This Round is identical to Round 7: Mask X 2.

Round 13: Alice & Ape III 3

This Round is identical to Round 8: Alice & Ape III 2.

Round 14: Frank Jr. 3

This Round is identical to Round 9: Frank Jr. 2 except that time elapses a bit more quickly.

Round 15: Kabuki 3

This Round is identical to Round 10: Kabuki 2.

Round 16: Texas Mac 4

This Round is identical to Round 6: Texas Mac 2 and Round 11: Texas Mac 3.

Round 17: Mask X 4

This Round is identical to Round 7: Mask X 2 and Round 12: Mask X 3.

Round 18: Alice & Ape III 4

This Round is identical to Round 4: Alice & Ape III. This may have been an oversight by the developers.

Round 19: Frank Jr. 4

This Round is identical to Round 14: Frank Jr. 3 except that time elapses a bit more quickly.

Round 20: Kabuki 4

This Round is identical to Round 10: Kabuki 2 and Round 15: Kabuki 3.
Final winnings: $658,110

Other Comments

From reaction windows as brief as 1 Frame to bonus points for button mashing, this game was made to be TASed! This TAS is not only be the fastest completion of the game, but possibly the only completion of the game to be found on the internet.

feos: I know it's waiting for my decision...
feos: As explained in this judgment, this is a Vault game. It might be considered a borderline case, but it's in fact below the borderline. We can't fully rely on the votes here, because there was another submission that was competing with this one, and it had a different goal, and was submitted after this one. So some of the interested this run got was due to the novelty, and some people state that the other tun was more entertaining. But the gameplay is still quite limited. End even though the run is short, it's repeating itself after a short while. So Vault it is.
But this run has no time sacrifices whatsoever, so in terms of goals it does fit into the vault, unlike its competitor.
It has also been explained there why focusing on the in-game time can't be a sensible goal for this game, so the other run got rejected due to using that goal. This run aims for real-time, and it also defeats the opponents faster.
Due to being a speed record both in the overall movie time and in all the rounds, I'm accepting this submission.
fsvgm777: Processing.


TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #5476: £e_Nécroyeur's Arcade Arm Wrestling in 07:43.37
Patashu
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Joined: 10/2/2005
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I'm glad you could make it to this game :) TAS totally destroys here. It's completely unfair. Yes vote.
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Joined: 6/30/2010
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I had no idea this game even existed. Compared to the Punch-Out games, it does look kind of lazy, though, with only having a very small number of opponents that constantly repeat. But I love the concept of Alice & Ape III, easily my favorite opponent. The TAS looks as optimized as the Punch-Out ones, with a detailed description explaining it. But I still have to go with a "meh" here, as the game just doesn't have the same entertainment value for me.
Current project: Gex 3 any% Paused: Gex 64 any% There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
Active player (379)
Joined: 7/12/2010
Posts: 22
Uh... ... ...well, this is awkward. I'd actually had a TAS of this game finished already, and then sat on it while I got nowhere trying to get the submission text written... Guess that's just how these things go sometimes. More once I watch the run. EDIT: Okay, that's done. Well, where the fights where we had the same goals are concerned--and that's most of them--everything is the same. Identical times and identical scores for the same time. But then in the remaining ones, it looks like we have a difference in goal priority. You seem to be doing real time, then score, where I did in-game time, score, then real time. I believe that real time is the wrong choice for this game because of the bonus points at the end of each fight. The bonus score is based on the time taken, taking longer to tally up for faster fights. This means in some circumstances it may be faster to slow down slightly to achieve a faster overall time, like in the Sonic games. That's not just a maybe either, that actually happens during the first Frank Jr. fight:
£e Nécroyeur wrote:
Manipulating "Wait!" attack type 2 as Frank Jr.'s final attack allows him to be defeated 3 Frames earlier than Manipulating "Wait!" attack type 1 as his final attack. However, manipulating "Wait!" attack type 1 as Frank Jr.'s final attack allows the transition to the next Round to start 7 Frames earlier than Manipulating "Wait!" attack type 2 as his final attack.
I will therefore go ahead and submit my own TAS.
Skilled player (1672)
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Posts: 448
Two independent parties were simultaneously creating a TAS...for this game? I love it! :)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 757
I would have thought this would have deliberately beaten the WR of 781,030 points set back in the 80's. Very disappointed it fails to beat an existing record.
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin Just another random gamer ---- <OmnipotentEntity> How do you people get bored in the span of 10 seconds? Worst ADD ever.
Dwedit
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Mr. Kelly R. Flewin wrote:
I would have thought this would have deliberately beaten the WR of 781,030 points set back in the 80's. Very disappointed it fails to beat an existing record.
It's deliberately failing to catch the cash among other things...
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 757
Dwedit wrote:
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin wrote:
I would have thought this would have deliberately beaten the WR of 781,030 points set back in the 80's. Very disappointed it fails to beat an existing record.
It's deliberately failing to catch the cash among other things...
And I am well aware of that. But the extra bit of time grabbing the cash and beating that, would have merely been icing on the cake on an otherwise interesting run. (Note I'm merely commenting for this title due the fact the other Punch-Out Arcade titles have scores way the hell up there, but this is in easy reach.)
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin Just another random gamer ---- <OmnipotentEntity> How do you people get bored in the span of 10 seconds? Worst ADD ever.
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Great run, yes vote!
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin wrote:
I would have thought this would have deliberately beaten the WR of 781,030 points set back in the 80's. Very disappointed it fails to beat an existing record.
I can see your point, however if I was TASing this, I'd just go for fastest time, in case it didn't get Moons. Catching the cash would disqualify it for Vault if I understand the rules correctly.
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c-square wrote:
I can see your point, however if I was TASing this, I'd just go for fastest time, in case it didn't get Moons. Catching the cash would disqualify it for Vault if I understand the rules correctly.
Vault rules wrote:
Goal choice criteria must be clear and non-controversial
Aims for maximum score is quite clear and non-controversial goal, so i think that it should be legitimate goal no matter is it for Moon or for Vault.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell) Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Noxxa
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Archanfel wrote:
c-square wrote:
I can see your point, however if I was TASing this, I'd just go for fastest time, in case it didn't get Moons. Catching the cash would disqualify it for Vault if I understand the rules correctly.
Vault rules wrote:
Goal choice criteria must be clear and non-controversial
Aims for maximum score is quite clear and non-controversial goal, so i think that it should be legitimate goal no matter is it for Moon or for Vault.
Only any% and full completion are clear and non-controversial goals for Vault purposes. Aiming for maximum score only counts if it is a definite full completion (so only if there is an actual maximum score to get, not an infinite one). Not commenting on this specific game or situation, just clarifying in general.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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Aims for maximum score is quite clear and non-controversial goal, so i think that it should be legitimate goal no matter is it for Moon or for Vault.
"Aims for maximum score" might drastically change the TAS strategy, aiming for better bonuses, or drawing a level out in order to get a higher in-level score. IMO, it wouldn't be as entertaining either. Also, ninja'ed. :)
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Mothrayas wrote:
Only any% and full completion are clear and non-controversial goals for Vault purposes. Aiming for maximum score only counts if it is a definite full completion (so only if there is an actual maximum score to get, not an infinite one). Not commenting on this specific game or situation, just clarifying in general.
@Mothrayas Still not fully clear. Can you please say for this specific game, can "Aims for maximum score" goal fit the vault rules as kind of "full completion"? Or not fit? (Max possible score is finite number.)
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Archanfel wrote:
@Mothrayas Still not fully clear. Can you please say for this specific game, can "Aims for maximum score" goal fit the vault rules as kind of "full completion"? Or not fit? (Max possible score is finite number.)
I haven't familiarised myself with this game, but if the max score is finite, then yes, that does sound like an appropriately Vaultable goal (along with anything else that can count as adding to full completion, if there are such other things).
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Yes vote, great run!
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GameFAQs wrote:
--50 points for each second of correctly pushing the joystick left to push your opponent --100/300/400/600/700 for each object you light up above your opponent's head on a counterattack. If you don't push down 5x in a row then the remaining ones appear as X's. For every five of these you get, one "power" lights up, and for every "power" you get, your opponent is stunned further. If you react too late you may only get 1 or 3 objects appearing. They may be exclamation marks, circles, or bowling pins. --50 points for each time you push left after getting a power up and freezing your opponent's action. This may become 100 on higher levels, but it never goes above 1000/2200 depending on the opponent. --400 points per second for winning each fight, in increments of 40 points --50000 points for catching the money bag(after fights 2 and 5)
Doesn't look like a limited collectable resource to me.
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I think the fact that each match has a time limit, and no action gives arbitrary points without taking in-game time, means max score, deathless is a well defined category.
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Archanfel wrote:
Can you please say for this specific game, can "Aims for maximum score" goal fit the vault rules as kind of "full completion"? Or not fit? (Max possible score is finite number.)
#2211: alden's SegaCD Desert Bus in 41:17:15:05.68
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Niamek wrote:
Archanfel wrote:
Can you please say for this specific game, can "Aims for maximum score" goal fit the vault rules as kind of "full completion"? Or not fit? (Max possible score is finite number.)
#2211: alden's SegaCD Desert Bus in 41:17:15:05.68
It looks like Desert Bus got rejected for being too similar to real time play, not because the goal is invalid.
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Just a heads up, link is broken in the above post.
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Desert Bus' goal was invalid too - for one, maxing out a score counter (note the wording) is not a Vaultable goal, and second, the cutoff point was entirely arbitrary. This was discussed in the submission discussion, just not put in the judgment. (Also, fixed links above)
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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Comparison encodes. Downloadable: https://yadi.sk/d/5LISlWSE3HZeUu Link to video
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Certainly an entertaining run until it starts to repeat itself. A solid 'Meh' vote from me. I also like that you aim for real time, and as such I think this is the run that should be published. I've never understood in-game time as a goal choice.
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Yahoo! Yahoo!
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£e Nécroyeur wrote:
Yahoo! Yahoo!
You owe me a test of the build I sent you :P
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.