We made a 234 frames' improvement from soig's TAS mainly by full use of S weapon in level 4. We think hurting enemies but not killing them is allowed in pacifist rule.
Level by level comments:
Level 1
Get S for 1P and save 15 frames in the BOSS fight. BOSS fight here is 2 frames faster than any% run.
Level 2
S is not quite good in this level because it will cause many lags and will easily kill enemies, so it's 15 frames slower than soig's TAS.
Level 3
Controll the time when 2P dies to save time, get double S and faster BOSS fight, 36 frames saved.
Level 4
Make full use of S just as any% run did, 174 frames saved.
Level 5
Get a better enemy before the second tank, use L in BOSS fight for it's faster than normal gun. 16 frames saved.
Level 6
The same as soig's TAS.
Level 7
Due to the bad luck, we use more pauses in this level. 4 frames slower before BOSS fight. But we saved 4 frames in the BOSS fight. The time remains the same.
Level 8
Controll enemies let 1P do fewer jumps. 8 frames saved.
Great improvements! Really pushing this category to its limit. The release date & cover have made this run even more significant.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
So I wonder if this run is truly in the spirit of a "pacifist" run. The run hurts enemies without killing them, which is generally not what a pacifist would do. But if we're just taking it as a synonym for "avoid killing" then this run is perfectly fine.
I'm going to leave this open for a few days, and if nobody has a problem with it I'll just accept it.
Warning: Might glitch to creditsI will finish this ACE soon as possible
(or will I?)
So I wonder if this run is truly in the spirit of a "pacifist" run. The run hurts enemies without killing them, which is generally not what a pacifist would do. But if we're just taking it as a synonym for "avoid killing" then this run is perfectly fine.
I'm going to leave this open for a few days, and if nobody has a problem with it I'll just accept it.
For clarification, are the enemies you’re talking about the flying yellow aliens at 8:10? Because that’s the only instance where I see non boss enemies being shot at.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Masterjun wrote:
The run hurts enemies without killing them, which is generally not what a pacifist would do.
Even though I just watched it, I still have to ask, which enemies does it actually hurt?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
So I wonder if this run is truly in the spirit of a "pacifist" run. The run hurts enemies without killing them, which is generally not what a pacifist would do. But if we're just taking it as a synonym for "avoid killing" then this run is perfectly fine.
I'm going to leave this open for a few days, and if nobody has a problem with it I'll just accept it.
Let's re-look soig's 8:53.46 pacifist tas. At frame 5732 and 12282, he also hurt enemies. Among them, at frame 5732, hurt the enemy can change the BGM, it can save 1 lag.
So I think we're just making good use of the skills the former have used. And it expands its scope of application. Personally, I think this is reasonable because there is no reason to reject the skills used in an accepted submission.
So I wonder if this run is truly in the spirit of a "pacifist" run. The run hurts enemies without killing them, which is generally not what a pacifist would do. But if we're just taking it as a synonym for "avoid killing" then this run is perfectly fine.
I'm going to leave this open for a few days, and if nobody has a problem with it I'll just accept it.
Also a request, could you help us change the movie as happylee uploaded?
I think this is reasonable because there is no reason to reject the skills used in an accepted submission.
Past mistakes don't justify future ones. It's in the Judge Guidelines. I asked this precisely because there were no discussions about this yet.
In fact, despite the replies, there is still not a single opinion about this.
Warning: Might glitch to creditsI will finish this ACE soon as possible
(or will I?)
In fact, despite the replies, there is still not a single opinion about this.
it's because we dont even know which enemies you're talking about. are these the same enemies that aiqiyou pointed out or are there different ones you're talking about?
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
I think this is reasonable because there is no reason to reject the skills used in an accepted submission.
Past mistakes don't justify future ones.
You're right. I'll correct my statement now. I just want to use a technique that has existed to explain why we do this. I don't have too many ideas about whether the rules are permissible.
it's because we dont even know which enemies you're talking about.
EZGames69, reread what the point of my initial reply is.
Then, if your answer depends on which enemies I'm talking about, then you didn't understand my point.
Warning: Might glitch to creditsI will finish this ACE soon as possible
(or will I?)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
I watched it again, this time in an emulator, and I still haven't seen enemies being hurt.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
aiqiyou wrote:
Masterjun's mean is we shot the tanks in stage2 and stage4.
In the boss rooms? I count these things as parts of the boss, even if they aren't necessary to kill, I don't have a problem with them being destroyed. Though those don't match his words "The run hurts enemies without killing them". I think he means something else.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
I mean, it's right there in the submission text. If even the senior judge doesn't read properly If I'm the only one who might see a problem here, then I'm probably caring about this too much. But not anymore! Who cares!
Warning: Might glitch to creditsI will finish this ACE soon as possible
(or will I?)
I mean, it's right there in the submission text. If even the senior judge doesn't read properly, then I'm probably caring about this too much. But not anymore! Who cares!
the submission text doesn’t say what enemies were shot at, only that they were.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Masterjun wrote:
I mean, it's right there in the submission text. If even the senior judge doesn't read properly, then I'm probably caring about this too much. But not anymore! Who cares!
Please quote the part of the submission text that tells which enemies get hurt but not killed (which was my original question).
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
I mean, it's right there in the submission text. If even the senior judge doesn't read properly, then I'm probably caring about this too much. But not anymore! Who cares!
Please quote the part of the submission text that tells which enemies get hurt but not killed (which was my original question).
Frame 4730,5270,6100 and so on. We shot the tanks. I think he's talking about these places.
I went ahead and trusted the authors' intuition on what is allowed and accepted this run. If future problems happen to come up, it's simple enough to make a new (possibly slower) run and obsolete previous runs.
Warning: Might glitch to creditsI will finish this ACE soon as possible
(or will I?)
