Post by dezbeast

Posted: 9/30/2006 11:28 PM

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erokky

Former player

Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462

I know I've asked this once, but I'll ask again. Have you any form of instant messenging? It would make communicating much easier between us. Edit: I know this is really tasking but I suggest you redo parts of your East Palace, mainly for the bomb, second to last room before the boss, and the boss itself (just copy me). Of course, this means you will need to rupee manipulate again. I know the pains of this, I've done it 3 times. I did some calculator work and I figured you could save up to 40 frames if you did these parts, and more potentially with the bomb. But of course, you can choose not to, which would just leave room for improvement should anybody feel like beating your run in the future.

Posted: 10/1/2006 7:32 AM

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dezbeast

Former player

Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States

The only time I could use IM is when my brother is not using his laptop or if I go to the library. Otherwise, I'm stuck posting with my PSP. My computer doesn't have internet access unfortunately. I'm seriously thinking about fixing all the errors in my whole run. Starting with the steps outside the castle. It does kind of annoy me now that I'm aware of them. If I decide to redo parts of the Eastern Palace I'm going to go ahead fix all my other errors. I'll see after I figure out a route.

Posted: 10/1/2006 8:56 AM

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erokky

Former player

Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462

If you're re-doing (hex-editing?) your run as far back as the steps to the castle, then fix this once you get up to it: To the right of your house is that white cement bridge that you cross to get to the East Palace. Here I remember you using a damage boost. Don't do this unless you can refill a heart before reaching the big key room. The beeping from the low health causes lag (up to 5 frames) in between screen transitions. Damage boosting never saves more than 4 frames anyway, and since you need to get hit in the big key room, don't bother with it at this particular point. It's a good thing in a sense that the beeping is annoying to viewers anyway. I was kind of surprised when I discovered this, and annoyed too, because I had to re-do a couple of rooms.

Posted: 10/1/2006 12:42 PM

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erokky

Former player

Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462

I was just wondering, when are you going to loot Kakariko (2 jars, net, heart, etc)? In my opinion, it's best to get them after you get your flute in the dark world, just before doing crystal 4. You either thought the same thing or had a different idea. If you had a different idea, please share it, even if it's slower. Since I've re-finished the East Palace, I'm open to start discussing your route now. What have you got so far? Remember you have save/quit at your disposal, it can be used as a convenient warp.

Posted: 10/1/2006 1:43 PM

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Bob_A

Joined: 2/12/2006
Posts: 432

erokky wrote:

It's a good thing in a sense that the beeping is annoying to viewers anyway.

You mean "It's a good thing in a sense that this happens because the beeping is annoying to viewers anyway." right?

Posted: 10/1/2006 8:01 PM

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Oddity

Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 178

A less wordy and more sophisticated route would be: "This newfound discovery has another benefit; low-health beeping is annoying to viewers anyway." Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

<^>v AB X LR s

Posted: 10/2/2006 5:08 AM

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dezbeast

Former player

Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States

erokky wrote:

I was just wondering, when are you going to loot Kakariko (2 jars, net, heart, etc)? In my opinion, it's best to get them after you get your flute in the dark world, just before doing crystal 4.

Yeah its probably best to do that since I already have to be in the middle of the village to get the bird. Right now I'm trying determine if I should beat the dungions in the same order that Flag did.

Posted: 10/2/2006 6:06 AM

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OmnipotentEntity

He/Him

Player (36)

Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630

Well, the only items that increase your ability to get heart pieces are AFAIK: 1) Magic Cape (requires Titan Mitt) 2) Hookshot (can be replaced by voidwalking in most cases) So, the only dungeons you have to look at changing the order of are 2 and 4, 4 is already early. 2 is way late. But most of the heart pieces that require the hookshot that I can think of are in Death Mountain anyway. And 7 is right after 2.

Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.

Posted: 10/2/2006 11:29 AM

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Madzombie

Joined: 3/2/2005
Posts: 18

I don't recall there being any hearts where you need the hookshot, even on a console playthrough. The only one where people would normally use the hookshot is for the one that also requires the cape, but you can walk around the top side of the pit to avoid using the hookshot.

Posted: 10/2/2006 11:53 AM

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erokky

Former player

Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462

From memory, at least one of the heart pieces require the following item/s to be obtained: bomb, dash, bow, mirror, flippers, spade, cape (this very same heart piece has a pit which can be crossed with either the hookshot or walk across the top of the pit, like madzombie said) and...rupees. The cape doesn't even require you to have gloves. The mirror is enough to get you into that small area to get the cape. Geting the cape before completing crystal 4 is debatable though.

Posted: 10/2/2006 6:25 PM

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kwinse

Joined: 5/13/2006
Posts: 283

erokky wrote:

spade

You're talking about that digging game south of the village of outcasts? He gives you a spade to use during the course of the game, so you don't need to avoid getting the flute to get the piece of heart, just use your mighty TAS prowess to dig it up in one go, and perhaps even manipulate it close to where you start the game.

<Zurreco> if so called professional players cant adapt to every playing field, theyre obviously not that great

Posted: 10/3/2006 1:07 PM

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erokky

Former player

Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462

WARNING: Don't grab the bomb at the bush! My test was incorrect, you lose time with that bomb trick! #^$#(*^%$&%. Edit: Hold it, I may still gain time, but if you want to do this trick with the bomb from under the bush, don't bother. Edit2: I gained time, but it was barely 20 frames. I'm going to try the sword method that flag used to see if this bomb was actually beneficial. Edit3: The bomb is a time saver, thank goodness. Remember, if you want to do this trick, it's not it's worth if you collect the bomb from under the bush.

Posted: 10/3/2006 9:47 PM

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dezbeast

Former player

Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States

I'm done planning a basic route. The light world is pretty straightforward, but once I get to the dark world it gets real disjointed and confusing. I'm not 100% confident of this route, so let me know if there is a better one. Sanctuary- heart container Eastern Palace Pegasus boots, s+q to Link's house 1st heart piece/Book of Mudora or vice versa, s+q to Link's house Desert palace- 2nd heart piece 3rd heart piece, s+q to Sanctuary Death Mountain- 4th heart piece, Mountain Tower, 5th heart piece, s+q to Sanctuary Lost Woods- 6th heart piece, mushroom, Master Sword, s+q to Link's house Pyramid- 7th heart piece Dark palace, s+q to pyramid flute, 8th heart piece, 9th heart piece (digging game) Kakariko Village- 1st & 2nd bottle, 10th & 11th heart piece, net (haven't tested which order is fastest) Village of Outcasts- 12th heart piece and 250/500 rupees (depending on how many rupees I have up to this point) from Game of Chance, Gargoyle's Hideout magic cape, 13th & 14th & 15th heart piece, 16th heart piece (lumberjacks yard), s+q to Link's house (to warp to pyramid) magic powder, quake medallion, flippers, 17th heart piece, s+q to mountain cave ether medallion, bird warp to Kakariko Village Village of Outcasts- red boomerang reunite blacksmiths, 18th heart piece, magic consumption upgrade, tempered sword, grab locked chest, bird warp to Link's house 3rd bottle, Bombos Medallion, bird warp to Kakariko Village Skull Dungeon, s+q to Pyramid last bottle (under bridge), 19th heart piece, Ice Palace, bird warp to desert Swamp Palace, 20th & 21st heart piece, bird warp to get ice rod ice rod, s+q to Link's house 22nd heart piece, Water Dungeon, Fat Fairy, s+q or bird warp to mountain (whichever's faster) Cane of Byrna Turtle Rock- 23rd heart piece, mirror shield last heart piece Ganon's Tower- red mail Do you still think I should redo the Eastern Palace to get the bomb?

Posted: 10/4/2006 5:42 AM

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erokky

Former player

Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462

After reading your route, I have come up with this, but this leaves your magic cape route a bit hard to do, Hopefully you can fix this. Now, firstly, I want to let you know the correct names of the dungeons, and they are: Hyrule Castle East Palace Desert Palace Tower of Hera Palace of Darkness Swamp Palace (this is crystal 2) Skull Woods Thieves' Town Ice Palace Misery Mire (this is crystal 6, the one you confused me with) Turtle Rock Ganon's Tower Now I see that you're doing 1, 4, 3, 5, 6, 2, 7. I will refer to the heart pieces as the numbers you have assigned to them. When you get your book, ignore the 1st heart piece altogether. With your current route, you plan to get 8th and 9th after the flute, don't do this, it requires too many unnecessary warps. After your flute (which you get in the light world), stay in the light world and go through Kakariko as you normally would in a normal run and get to the warp north-west of the town. On your way, get the bird and buy the jar if you have enough money. Don't get the jar in the house, the net, or the 10th and 11th heart pieces. Once you reach the warp and in the dark world, make for the treasure game and get your 12th heart piece (by the way, I don't remember it was possible to collect 300 rupees from a chest in here). After this, go straight to and complete Thieves' Town. After Thieves' Town, get the 300 rupees, then go south, and don't grab the smithy's partner but jump down the ledge and go left a screen, you will end up here. Now warp, and you will end up here. Play the race and grab the 1st heart piece. Walk back through the fences back to your mirror warp and back to the dark world. Jump down the ledge in the first screenshot and play the digging game. After the digging game, go back and grab the smithy's partner, but do not rescue him, just save and quit right after you collect him. The reason for this is because you cannot play the digging game with the smithy's partner following you. From the pyramid, dash your way to the magic shop equivalent, warp to the light world, and deliver the mushroom. Warp back, get quake, flippers, and the 17th heart piece. Save/quit into the mountain cave. Collect ether, fly back to the magic shop to collect your magic powder, fly to Kakariko, get the jar in the house and the net and return the smithy's partner. Pay them to get your sword done. Once outside, upgrade your magic meter, then fly back to Kakariko, get your 10th and 11th, warp back to the dark world via the north-west warp. Grab your magic boomerang*, collect the heart (the one where you mash the stumps), warp back to light world, collect your sword, dark world, purple chest, back to the light world, fly to spot 4 (Link's house), warp BACK TO THE DARK WORLD (at this point, I'm getting tired of all the warping), get to the Bombos part, WARP BACK TO THE LIGHT WORLD, get your bombos, open your purple chest. Fly where ever from there (Skull Woods perhaps?) * only if it's the only chest of it's kind Here's a .smv of it. There is a mistake I made after collecting the purple chest, I save/quit, I think it's quicker if you warp back to the light world and fly to Link's house. Also note that I have the blue boomerang, so when I open that chest, it appears as 300 rupees. Also, I don't have the mushroom, but pretend that I do. I also nearly forgot to say, the 8th heart piece: After completing the Swamp Palace (crystal 2), go left and up and collect your 8th, then save/quit to Link's house, travel south and grab that warp and travel to the bomb shop like you planned. I have doubts about my own route, so don't take my word for it. Think of it more as a suggestion. It's really difficult because there are so many ways for doing it, it is very complicated, and I praise you for what you have come up with. ALSO, if you have any questions about my decisions, please ask, I should have a reason for everything that I've suggested. Oh and...I know redoing the East Palace is a bloody bitch, but I think you should, for the bomb for the heart piece after the Desert Palace. But I may have a method which might work, and may be quicker. After you collect your 21st heart piece, just go back outside and jump down to the cave. I'm not sure if that's possible but give it a shot.

Posted: 10/4/2006 6:57 AM

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dezbeast

Former player

Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States

Ah, don't mind my name mistakes, it's been over 12 years since I mastered this game. So I'm just re~learning what everything's called. You've given me a different perspective on the route. I'll definately factor in your suggestions. I have no questions as of yet, but I should after I look more into this.

Posted: 10/4/2006 1:29 PM

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erokky

Former player

Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462

Now that I think about it, maybe the 8th heart piece is best gotten after the flute, just grab it, stay in the light world and proceed as you would.

Posted: 10/6/2006 9:29 PM

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dezbeast

Former player

Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States

Erokky, I'm not sure if you know this already, but I just discovered that wobbling left & right when going down out of doorways in dungeons causes Link to move 2 pixels per frame as long as he's in the doorway. It doesn't work going right though.

Posted: 10/6/2006 11:38 PM

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erokky

Former player

Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462

I can't get it to work. I'm going 1 pixel per frame instead. Which dungeon did this work on in particular? Edit: I got it to work. Nice trick. I know how it works, but I don't know why it works. It only works on doors where Link automatically walks out of, before the door closes, those doors with the evil eyes on them. Anyway, it only works when going down for some reason. Great find dezbeast. Edit2: Hmm, it seems that you walk out of it 2 pixels per frame regardless if you wobble or not, and like so, it only happens when going down and out of those particular dungeon type doors. Perhaps you can clarify which doors you mean exactly. Like this?

Posted: 10/7/2006 12:51 AM

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dezbeast

Former player

Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States

That particular door Link already walks out automatically. I'm referring to the ones where you have to walk out of manually. It seems to only work in dungeons. It works in the castle also. I tested to see if it would work at Link's house but it didn't.

Posted: 10/7/2006 12:55 AM

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erokky

Former player

Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462

Oh nevermind, I got it. Great trick, nice find. Edit: Thanks dezbeast, this is a really great find. Fortunately, upon finishing the Desert Palace, there are only 7 places to use this trick on, 8 in your case since you get the heart at the sancutary. I'll be sure to use it from now on though, thanks to you. I've done some testing and it appears you can only do this trick inside, ie. not the overworld. Also, doing this to travel to the right seems impossible. You've probably already experimented on this. Again, great stuff on finding it. I love when a new trick is discovered.

Posted: 10/7/2006 4:11 AM

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