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This particular quote has absolutely nothing to do with adding a new tier.
If you can't see from these quotes how often Yes votes people give just because it's an improvement are translated as Yes in terms of entertaining, well then, you don't have their problem with the current submission poll and tiers.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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So after a break, I feel like listing the problems with the current tier system which users are unhappy with, and which are solved in the proposed system.
Moth: sorry for the collision.
If the tier of an accepted run is not decided by posts and votes, people voting yes for dead boring improvements don't skew the stats the judge will use.
With flexible hiding cutoff, there's nothing that's always hidden.
If the question is simply "Do you think this should be published?", the voters are finally happy, and false positives don't appear out of people granting their votes arbitrary meaning.
But what does such a question help judges to decide? If the run is any%/100%, it concerns optimality at least. If it's a side goal, it tells whether this run is entertaining enough to be accepted, or it should be rejected. For runs that are neither any%/100%, nor entertaining (fully botted minigame), or probably break some rules (cheat codes), but is still technically impressive (a smart bot was designed), the answer Yes would mean "we're still okay with having this run publish".
Without using Vault for badly looking runs and Moons for nicely looking runs, we won't have the Vault runs stigmatized as a priori bad, boring and not worthy.
If there's no need in figuring out what entertainment tier we should send uncertain runs, there's no way to judge that wrong and get people pissed over it. And there's no need to move movies between tiers after publication once the time proves the decision was "wrong".
Now, the the problems that this system introduces.
...errr, my list is empty!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Long lists were considered, and I was always suggesting to hide by user-defined rating cutoff. It can be 6- entertainment rating by default, configurable from the Filter. Without that, current lists might already be considered too huge. And yes, this is the only part that requires coder effort (if we aren't talking about Demo tier yet).
Navigation by game has no contradiction to any tiering system at all.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I'm tired. You're against any changes? Whatever. This is one of the thread's options. Just don't think your disbelieve in people needing it helps anything. See my sig.
What hurts me though it when I ponder and explain something for pages, and then see "what, you didn't explain anything, lol".
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Thanks.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I see only two differences/levels of highlighting/visibility of runs. Hiding Vault Vs. not Hiding the rest, and highlighting Stars Vs. not anything else. Hiding can be done by user defined rating cutoff (better since it's flexible, better since no run gets stigmated, which people are definitely arguing against). Highlighting of stars won't change. If we only want these 2 methods of promotion, they will still be there.
Quote me saying Demo is for "interesting" runs. It is for impressive achievements that don't meet the current standards of the main 2 tiers. If you want, I'll also list people who want board games published. If you want, you can ignore them stating that, but it's no solution.
I'd say it's what opinions are for. How do I prove something is needed if it pops up every once in a while, has definite meaning, but isn't taken seriously by you? I'd think, only by linking to posts that want this tier, but it'd take a week to find them all.
It solves problems people unhappy with the current vault system (should I quote them all too by any chance?) have with it. Most of those who stated that in other threads now support the suggested change. Probably reading the posts I linked could help seeing what and how it solves to them.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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How does this hierarchical aspect function in the first place? We show stars and moons in movies by platform lists, and hide vault runs from there. We link to 3 tiers separately too (well, they appear in different recent movies lists on the front page too). That's all I can tell about it being hierarchical. If hiding lower part is the only way to showcase the higher part, I'd say we're not actually promoting anything.
On the other hand, stars and newcomer recs serve promotion well, since they are displayed on the front page randomly (depending on being logged in).
I actually never intended to say it is for runs that don't beat the game. It is for anything that can't be in records or moons, but people still vote Yes for (and post their reasons in the threads). Right now, there was clear will to have board game tases published somehow. But Vault rules forbid those, Moon rules require being more entertaining, so board games meet neither, but people want them anyway!
More ideas about what can be sent to Demo tier can be found here:
http://tasvideos.org/Feos/Ideas.html#Brancheshttp://tasvideos.org/Feos/Ideas.html#Tiershttp://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14776
But all those pages just list cases that could be put to Demo, while deciding if that should be done can be by votes and posts.
Yeah, that's what I meant. Will count in my next post.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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This thread isn't about any of these.
The question is about changing the word "tiers" to something more fitting, since this won't be about entertainment value layers any more.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Yes. 2 is about being entertaining. 3 is about being not entertaining but impressive in some other way.
The only actual "problem" then is calling those tiers. Well, what other names would fit the concept?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Appearance
CATEGORY1: all any% and 100%
CATEGORY2: all entertaining side goals
CATEGORY3: entertaining rule breakers
CATEGORY4: the most entertaining runs from all of the above
Submission poll
Return to the "Should this be published?" question.
People love to vote based on their feelings, which can be affected by different factors: optimality, entertainment, impressiveness. Each if these alone is a ground to publish something, and if all of them are on a high level, a run can be starred.
Judgment logic
Language: c
void JudgeMovie()
{
if (SubOptimal)
return Reject();
if (any% || 100%)
return Accept(CATEGORY1);
if (!Entertaining)
return Reject();
if (BreaksSomeRules) // but still entertaining
return Accept(CATEGORY3);
else
return Accept(CATEGORY2);
}
Category names
CATEGORY1 was suggested to be named Coins. This keeps our usual reference to SMW:
CATEGORY1 was also suggested to be named Records.
CATEGORY3 is usually expected to be called Demo.
Site code
Add some icon for NEW runs, showing "Rate me!" on mouse hover.
Add ability to hide publications by certain rating cutoff.
If you wish, I can scan through the thread and tell how many + and - posts were there for each of the above.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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The only thing that'd require site code is changing how hiding works, and some names/icons. Moving can be done by users.
BTW, I disagree that there must be runs that are in both tiers. It indeed requires code changes and doesn't seem to make any changes we can't live without.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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There actually is some kind of a consensus in this thread, between those who support this proposed system, I even posted pseudocode of how would judgment work, and how well the old submisison question would fit. It just never was really considered by anyone capable of applying these changes.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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This error happens for me when when the project gets corrupted during saving, so you won't even be able to open it and change the id. But please try to reproduce, this is an annoying bug I don't understand.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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It's a reference to the Knuckles all rings run, this pic happens in the first level. How do I improve the rings anyway?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I suddenly start agreeing that we do quite some things for promotion already that would not get lost even if the tier system is changed. And the unpromotion (hiding) feels better if left for the user to set borderlines. However, there will be exactly the same borderline cases when making judgment, since if some run's entertainment level isn't quite enough, it's either weakly accepted, or rejected. But those aren't the reasons why we want the changes anymore, are they?
Oh, and as I said back then, with such system we won't need 2 polls or entertainment poll. People can understand absurd goals, people can understand sloppiness. If they vote yes on an any%, they consider it optimal. If they vote yes on a side goal, they consider it entertaining. But I have no proof for that yet, other than it's how it used to work for years.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Gave up on the rings.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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How exactly it doesn't work? It's not a list of movie that we recommend newcomers to see first? What's the point of removing starred movies from there and putting there moons instead? Finally, the list is solid, we do not move the flag from one current run to another whenever we feel like, it's just based on some factors that make sense for this list.
- runs that were several times mentioned in the "what blew your mind" thread
- runs that do things that are farthest from intended
- runs of popular games
- runs with obvious tas-only strats
- runs where it's still comprehensible what's being done to the game (being popular helps, as people have knowledge of how it's intended to be played)
Of course we would pick them from Stars, as star movies are those that meet most of the above.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Rating system even remotedly close to perfect is plain impossible:
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Yeah, and what is so good in that? And what problems does it solve exactly?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Setting custom resolution in Display config may work.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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It's mostly safe, but make backups often, in case you do something far from expected. And if you report bugs, figure and out exact and reliable reproduction steps to help fixing it properly.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Replying in order of reading, those may be already answered/resolved.
Makes sense, but how do we decide which one is actually better for newcomers?
The intent is (again) blowing the mind, giving the best emotions first. But being comprehensible also matters, thats why MM2 is used instead of MM1. As for overlapping, how can a movie that is expected to be so good it should blow your mind be not a star? "Secret better-than-Star 4th tier" - any flag can be imagined to be that, but flags are flags, tiers are tiers. But yes, we pick "best stars" there.
Log out and visit the main page.
I don't disagree with your examples of desired movie length, but they are arbitrary, and this run was picked because many people asked for it to be NewcomerRec, and it was (and is) the highest rated movie on the site regarding entertainment. So yeah, this one is no mistake to showcase.
I agree with your take of the run (or the category?), but it was mentioned in the mind-blowing list for enough times to see it has its value. However, I don't see much of a problem to figure out the run that's currently more appealing. I starred GBA Amy for being so zip free and comprehensible.
Once again picked due to many mentions as a mind-blowing run, and I think people were mentioning different iterations of this branch, so yeah. And I'm open for anything that feels better than what it currently is (so I'll just keep reading).
It's among 20 most entertaining runs on our site, and it's not because of the fan base or belonging to some huge franchise, so I believe it makes perfect sense to showcase such a playaround for newcomers.
Thanks.
Hmm, I might revisit my thoughts on this run. I remember there was some IRC discussion about it, but don't remember anything of it. I starred this movie instead of warped in the first place because it contained way more cool things that the latter did. And most importantly, warpless+walkathon was long considered plain impossible, and then MUGG suggested a solution, that does look very TAS-only, with all the setup and execution. Sure, real-time people may try and reproduce, but just like RTA-ing Gimmick 100% (props to Cyghfer), it's still a geek-only challenge (so far).
I'll read the whole thread first.
EDIT:
Yeah. Nearly impossible.
Because of one of the reasons runs are picked for: doing things farthest from intended. 0-star is picked for that, RBO is picked for that too.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Before I read the entire thread, there is an actual thread for this flag.
The idea behind the flag is to mark some categories that use to break people's minds. There was a thread on that regard too, and the ones that had the most "votes" got flagged. The only run that didn't come from that thread was Gimmick.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.