This is a new Rockman TAS, mostly an update to the previous version though.
Changes:
Cutman battle improved by 4 frames. Thanks to Vatchern!
Wily1-Wily4 (excluding Wily4 refights) improved by about 16 frames.
One more refill in Wily2. Costs 20 frames. Wins a couple of seconds in Wily4.
Bombman refight glitched, death. Resulting lots of gain. Other refights skipped totally. Thanks to Arne the Adjective and FinalFighter! (Thanks to Arne again for reminding me about FinalFighter's refined technique to this.)
New attribute: Uses death to save time.
90% of the last battle was played by BisqBot. I created a new algorithm core in the bot that simulated literally what a human would do in such situation; only saving lots of work. (Previous versions of BisqBot have always used random input combinations.)
AngerFist's contribution to this movie comes from his part
in the previous version. He played the Gutsman fight and
the Bombman fight (the first), and he prevailed at luck
manipulation in Cutman stage, and helped optimize
a couple of rooms.
Ps: The rerecord count is arbitrary. At some point, it was going to say 6268371 -- somehow the value was accidentally copied from BisqBot's progress file. So I edited it manually.
Ah, indeed. BisqBot did play some parts of this movie. Specifically, the 14-frame improvement in Wily1 is thanks to BisqBot, and the Bombman refight escape technique was perfected by BisqBot. And of course, he manipulated the refills in Wily2 and beat CWU-01P. And, played 90% of Wily4 battle.
As for Bombman refight escape... I disassembled Bombman's AI entirely. That way, I knew exactly how to make it throw a bomb and how to make it jump a certain height of jump.
Edit: Submission file replaced! (15:52 --> 15:49)
Edit 2: Submission file replaced again! (15:49 --> 15:48)
Edit 3: Round numbers are nice. 56900 frames is the length now, making it 1289 frames (21.5 seconds) faster than the published movie.
Ps: This is a bigame movie. It completes on both Rockman (J) and Mega Man (U).
I noticed that the "magnet beam solidification" subtitle from v8 was retained in this version, even though that code extension wasn't actually used. The rest of the subtitle file was significantly different, so where did that come from?
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
good point, the bosses that were skipped are important, not semi...
I actually think the subtitles that explain to old watchers to skip to 9:30 is not needed, new people are going to enjoy it without needing that information and old watchers are probably going to recognize the same movements anyways, since not all obsoleted movies have completely different movements, especially an already near optimal movie like this one. (near optimal of course being the first 9:30.)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Sir VG wrote:
What it's probably referring to is beating the bosses the 2nd time around.
semi-important generally refers to goals in the game that are optional yet recommended, I'm pretty sure the seconds boss fights are not optional i.e. you have to fight them to procede.
I noticed that the "magnet beam solidification" subtitle from v8 was retained in this version, even though that code extension wasn't actually used. The rest of the subtitle file was significantly different, so where did that come from?
I decided to not use the magnet beam patch, because some might feel it changes the game. I however forgot to remove that subtitle.
comicalflop wrote:
I actually think the subtitles that explain to old watchers to skip to 9:30 is not needed
Perhaps...
comicalflop wrote:
semi-important generally refers to goals in the game that are optional yet recommended, I'm pretty sure the seconds boss fights are not optional i.e. you have to fight them to procede.
By "semi-important goals" I'm usually referring to quests that are normally done in the playing, that are considered part of the game's plot. They don't need to be mandatory or optional.
Maybe that tag doesn't belong to this movie... Hmm.
The point of a TAS is to use tools to create a movie that is BOTH fast and fun to watch.
"Fun to watch", as you seem to define it, is blatantly in contradiction with "fast". What you seem to want is a machinima video, not a TAS.
There are at least 300 videos in this site which are like you want: They run through the game using the intended route, "skilfully" (in a sense) dodging enemies and so on. There's an overabundance of this. It even goes so far that many of the videos are somewhat boring because of that ("ok, it runs through the game at optimal speed without getting hit... so what? there's nothing really interesting here").
The fun in the few videos like the rockman1 one is that it does something completely *unexpected*. When someone watches the video, especially if he has played the game, he will go "what the h*** happened there?!? what is he doing? whaa...!" That's the whole point: It's surprising, it's unexpected. That's the whole cool factor in this kind of run, something which is very rare.
A run of rockman1 which does not abuse glitches and goes through the intended route would be *boring*, completely opposite of "fun". You can call it artistical or whatever, but that doesn't change the fact that it would just become part of the grey mass of other similar (300+) videos in the site already. It's cool that there are at least *some* videos which are completely different and surprising.
If you don't find extreme glitch abuse fun, then go watch all those 300+ other videos which do not have such glitch abuse (because the game doesn't have such bugs or they have not been found). I bet you'll get bored at the 200th such video or so.
However runs that break the game to this extent should not "obsolete" runs that play the game perfectly, flawlessly and ARTISTICALLY.
If a run is slower than another run, then it's certainly not perfect. And who are you to tell that the glitched run is not perfect, flawless nor artistical?
One example of what I feel is the lessening artistry in TASes is the motto of "if it's faster to just ram into the enemy and take the damage than it is to skillfully dodge it, then do that" It's fast yes, but it looks bad.
"Looks bad" is a question of opinion. If the main character passes right through the enemy (ab)using damage, that may look cool. It's a question of opinion.
Another is this "zip through walls" nonsense. I'll admit when the first mega man 1 glitch run came out I thought it was pretty cool...but the novelty has run out. Now all I see is a game that's so broken that it's almost unrecognizable as a person playing mega man.
Well, you can go watch the 300+ videos which do not have any zipping in them. Don't bore yourself to death, though.
Since I can see thsi problem is much worse than I thought, I'm no longer abstaining. I'm voting no.
That sentence tempts me to use namecalling, but I'll skip.
This run is crappy and boring no matter how much you say otherwise. I'd rather watch a 25 minute run of the game being completely perfected than a 15 minute run of someone zipping through walls. I am not going to support runs like this, I'm going to vote no for runs like this, and when they get published, I am going to give them a very low entertainment rating. I dont care how "unexpected" it is, it looks like a debug cheat, not gameplay. You ask who am I to say what isn't perfect, artistic or flawless, and I counter by asking you who are you to say what is?
If you don't agree with my assessment of this run, that's fine. But the attitude is unwarranted, unwanted and unwelcome. But if attitude is the way you want to play it, that's fine with me, and I'll inform you that if you don't like what comes out of my mouth, then check out what comes out of the other end.
EDIT: By the way, since you seem to love to tell me to "watch all the other runs and not be bored" Actually, I've done that already. Check it out
You have rated 67.7% (243 of 359) of all published movies.
You have rated more movies than 96% of users, and less than 4% of users. (0% same.)
The raters' top-15 (out of 140 users who have rated):1. 100%: Zurreco, Neofix & MovieWatcher
2. 77%: Bisqwit
3. 68%: AngerFist & NecroVMX
4. 59%: JXQ
5. 56%: FreshFeeling
6. 53%: ideamagnate & adelikat
7. 51%: moozooh
8. 50%: Sami
9. 48%: Kyrsimys
10. 47%: Aqfaq
11. 41%: Shakespeare
12. 38%: Ouzo
13. 33%: GuanoBowl
14. 30%: SmashManiac
15. 28%: Lutz
I am not going to support runs like this, I'm going to vote no for runs like this, and when they get published, I am going to give them a very low entertainment rating.
On a related note, do you by any chance know who rated this run with 1/1? The person who did that was one of the first three raters, so the fact was pretty clear.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
I rated it 0/5
I struggled on the "how close to perfection" is it rating, as on one point, the run shows a deep knowledge of the game and how it works, and gets it done faster than thought possible. On the other hand, I don't see anything "perfect" about glitch runs, so I went for the middle rating.
Umm, well, how come you're rating its technical performance as "average", provided the fact that it's hardly improvable at all — that is, in its definite category? It may not appear entertaining to you — I'm ok with that — but that low technical rating is just unfair, IMO.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
I explained why. On one hand it showed that it was technically impressive and close to unimprovable. However it also says "how close it is to perfection" My idea of perfection and the idea of perfection shown in this TAS differ drastically. So i gave it the middle rating. Keep in mind 5 is now low, it's average.
I personally find this run interesting in the theoretical sense, and have a tremendous respect for Bisqwit & Angerfist for being so dedicated to this game. But I do not enjoy actually watching the run.
NecroVMX has every right to vote no, or rate the movie low, if that's truly how he feels, and so does everyone else have the right to vote or rate as high or as low as they percieve. Why argue? If you don't like his low rating because you disagree, then put your high rating there with it. It doesn't warrant a half-assed threaten of namecalling, complete with "taking the high road" in an attempt to look better.
Edit: Some clarification.
1) I agree with Moozooh that the movie's technical perfection is independent of whether or not you like the movie (this is avoiding cross contamination of ratings).
2) My post was mostly in response to Warp, simply because he seems to be mad because of a no vote, which I think is silly.
3) I have the reading comprehension of a grapefruit.
Anyway, sorry if I pissed anyone off.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
I explained why. On one hand it showed that it was technically impressive and close to unimprovable. However it also says "how close it is to perfection" My idea of perfection and the idea of perfection shown in this TAS differ drastically. So i gave it the middle rating. Keep in mind 5 is now low, it's average.
Apparently, you don't really understand the concept behind the two separate rating categories. What you said up there belongs entirely to the entertainment domain. Your idea of perfection — the unglitched movie or what have you — doesn't have anything to do with the technical perfection of the this run. The technical score is intended to show how well do the runners perform in the chosen type of a run (and that type is something that you're unsatisfacted with, not the "average" performance which comes out of your rating values). Basically, a similar run that could have gotten 5 for technical would look nearly the same (the same inane glitching and stuff), but would be ~3 minutes longer because of the inoptimizations.
EDIT: JXQ, I'm not taking Necro's vote from him, I just want to understand why does he rate one thing with an idea of another.
EDIT2: Nevermind, JXQ. :D
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
You've only reinforced what I voted, as I'm sure people will continue to find ways to abuse the game code further and skip even more things. But I'm not going to argue any more, You only seem to want to contest the rating that I am not going to change, and from now on if someone asks how I rated, the answer is none of your business.
I personally find this run interesting in the theoretical sense, and have a tremendous respect for Bisqwit & Angerfist for being so dedicated to this game. But I do not enjoy actually watching the run.
NecroVMX has every right to vote no, or rate the movie low, if that's truly how he feels, and so does everyone else have the right to vote or rate as high or as low as they percieve. Why argue? If you don't like his low rating because you disagree, then put your high rating there with it. It doesn't warrant a half-assed threaten of namecalling, complete with "taking the high road" in an attempt to look better.
Edit: Some clarification.
1) I agree with Moozooh that the movie's technical perfection is independent of whether or not you like the movie (this is avoiding cross contamination of ratings).
2) My post was mostly in response to Warp, simply because he seems to be mad because of a no vote, which I think is silly.
3) I have the reading comprehension of a grapefruit.
Anyway, sorry if I pissed anyone off.
I pretty much agree with everything you said (except the grapefruit part) I doubt whether it has a rating of 8.0 or 8.2 or 8.9 or whatever matters as much as the star put on the run anyway.
Speaking of stars, I've been wondering why some runs have stars and some have moons, is there a distinction?
[…]
1) I agree with Moozooh that the movie's technical perfection is independent of whether or not you like the movie (this is avoiding cross contamination of ratings).
[…]
I pretty much agree with everything you said (except the grapefruit part)
You agree with JXQ who agrees with me, but you don't agree with me. A nice way of contradicting yourself.
NecroVMX wrote:
You only seem to want to contest the rating that I am not going to change
Never was my intention. Also, apparently, you didn't seem to understand my previous post even in the slightest.
NecroVMX wrote:
and from now on if someone asks how I rated, the answer is none of your business
Funny to see you pissed off, since no-one has even asked you that question to begin with, you've chosen to disclose that voluntarily. :)
And next time before you choose to give a technically admirable run a low technical rating, which basically says it was executed poorly, have at least a common courtesy and respect for the authors. Thank you.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
I agree with JXQ that the run is boring. I'm not contradicting myself, he said himself that he doesn't enjoy watching it. I also don't enjoy watching it. I told you I'm not going to argue with you anymore, and I'm not going to, but I will say that I will rate movies whatever I want, regardless of some other random person's opinion of how it should be rated.
You could just ask Bisqwit to change the rating system so it's only you that rates movies, but I kinda think he'll decline.
I disclosed what I voted since you asked *me* who voted 1/1. I didn't take that as a literal question since I have no way of knowing who voted what. I took it as you wanting to know what I voted.
What it all boils down to is, moozooh, you made a valliant effort, but you can't fight the fact that I really don't care what you think. You're now trying the tactic that somehow I direspected someone by voting as I see fit. If that's disrespect, then fine. For the record, I have nothing against Bisqwit or Angerfist (or really anyone on this site), I just happened to really dislike their Mega Man 1 run. Somehow, you can't seem to come to terms with that, but please take the fact that I really dont' care to heart and stop arguing. Because you're not going to change anything.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
moozooh wrote:
admirable run
Love you!
NecroVMX wrote:
I just happened to really dislike their Mega Man 1 run.
Love you more!
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
