I found this game at a used video game store months ago, and picked it up for $7. Money well spent! I have almost finished through this game, and I've given thought to trying a TAS of it. The task seems daunting, and I'd be thrilled if someone beat me to it, but that seems to not happen very often. I wouldn't be starting this for a while though, so maybe this will spark someone else's interest, which would be great.
Here are my opinions!
I would turn brightness up to its maximum in the options. I also wonder if turning up the analog's sensitivity could give more precise turning (though it may end up more jerky than anything).
Diagonal walking works in this game. I don't like this.
There are some secret levels. I'm not sure if these should be visited or not in a TAS.
I have yet to find a graphics plugin that does not have a visual problem on the left and right sides of the screen when near a wall. This does not happen on console.
Some of the levels in this game are just so back-and-forth, it reminds me of Metroid Prime. It's ridiculous and would not be very fun to watch, I think. Maybe someone who is more into the game would not find it boring, though. Some levels require a lot of enemy-killing, and I think those would be fun to watch.
This game was ported to the PC as a Doom 2 customization under the name Absolution Doom (or something like that). I haven't tried it, but I hear it's a near flawless recreation, and also has extra levels and enemies that the N64 version doesn't have. Maybe that would be more worth doing than this version? Maybe a version is already done and I just haven't found it yet.
Please share your opinions on the game, its TAS potential, and what kind of goals would be good. Thanks!
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Doom64, I absolutly loved this Game.
I was 12 or 13 as I played it. And I only Meneged to beat it on the easyest difficulty Level (Be Gentile)
I never Discovered the Secret Levels. I now that on a Harder Difficult Stage, there are 2 Cyberdemons in the Level before the Last Level (wich is really funny, and dangerous)
I also now, that you can collect special Artefacts in the Secret Levels. With them you can close the Ennemy Teleport Doors in the Last Level, so that the Final Boss apperears immediatly. (Final Boss is a kind of Demon Queen/mother/wahtever) and its not really Powerful, since it has an attack algoritme, and you can avade the attacks easely. How to enter the Special Levels, i don't know sorry. But I can search for it.
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
JXQ wrote:
There are some secret levels. I'm not sure if these should be visited or not in a TAS.
If it is faster, then yes. (This is a usual strategy in Doom 2 speedruns, where level 15 secret exit is easier to reach than the normal exit.)
For a game like this, there's always room for an additional 100% kills/secrets run, so there's no reason to visit the secret levels in an "any%" run, unless it saves time.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Except Doom 64 is eve darker than DN iirc...
Also, there are quite a lot of glitches in the PC Dooms, like wall hugging strafing which is even faster than normal strafing, and buttloads of others I bet. I think it wouldn't do any harm to try and see if those same glitches for for 64.
I'd probably watch and appreciate a TAS of this game. I say go ahead.
Just try not to move the character around too much, please? I'm interested in this too but watching even ordinary speed runs of the series makes me motion sick...
Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?
While the time may look impressive compared to what human play has achieved, there's some very fundamental gaps in the TASers knowledge in regards to movement speed. The way speed works in a nutshell is that there are several stacking speed modifiers that this run apparently does none of. Strafe Running with the strafe buttons is one factor, Strafe Running with use of the Strafe On button is another (this one is more tricky due to the fact that it locks you facing one direction. A major speed modifier that's actually really fundamental to Doom 64 running and sets it aside from the PC Doom games is called neutral reset. Basically you can reset the neutral position on an N64 analog stick and setting the neutral position of the stick to all the way back essentially gives the player double the run speed when moving forward. This comes at the cost of your ability to back up via analog stick and can only be achieved with the specific back button.
Another thing that could potentially be optimized further is playing with a higher sensitivity to make turns quicker and get enemies out of your way faster. Enemies in general are not manipulated all that well in this TAS. It's a shame to have this TAS discovered in a "complete" state, but there's just such a large gap in understanding that someone with the knowledge could easily shave upwards of ten minutes off of this.
I agree with everything Garrison said.
I only watched the first 4 stages, and then skipped to the last level after seeing him miss the 1st secret stage. It's a shame that he skips the secrets, because the fully powered laser is way stronger than the BFG and can melt cyberdemons and the final boss very quickly. I'm not sure if the time it takes to play the three secret levels is worth it, but personally I think an "all-stages" run should be done, and it would be much more entertaining than an any% run.
That is, all story stages. There are a few extra hidden bonus stages that could be interesting to see TASed (Hectic and Cat and Mouse especially), but I wouldn't expect to see them included with the rest of the game.
Yeah! I'm going to send the movie on TASVideos next weak, because I won't have the internet to answer the questions while the judge goes! I'd like my movie to be published anyway. Some games are reTASed for 5 time and all were published, but many people know this game and know the defects =(
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
I agree with everything Garrison said.
I only watched the first 4 stages, and then skipped to the last level after seeing him miss the 1st secret stage. It's a shame that he skips the secrets, because the fully powered laser is way stronger than the BFG and can melt cyberdemons and the final boss very quickly. I'm not sure if the time it takes to play the three secret levels is worth it, but personally I think an "all-stages" run should be done, and it would be much more entertaining than an any% run.
That is, all story stages. There are a few extra hidden bonus stages that could be interesting to see TASed (Hectic and Cat and Mouse especially), but I wouldn't expect to see them included with the rest of the game.
Yes, TASing this game without Laser Gun was too difficult, but I saved about 1:30 minuts in total! I was going to take one of the 3 demon artifacts anyway to pass the last stage faster: 2 teleports is tolerantly and easy, but 3 is hard and confusing! Also, in vain you watched only 4 levels: after 7th map I was doing the best!
Hidden stages will be TASed soon! Help me to get on the 3rd hidden map (In the void) to see TAS with "normal weapons" or I'll type the password!
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
While the time may look impressive compared to what human play has achieved, there's some very fundamental gaps in the TASers knowledge in regards to movement speed. The way speed works in a nutshell is that there are several stacking speed modifiers that this run apparently does none of. Strafe Running with the strafe buttons is one factor, Strafe Running with use of the Strafe On button is another (this one is more tricky due to the fact that it locks you facing one direction. A major speed modifier that's actually really fundamental to Doom 64 running and sets it aside from the PC Doom games is called neutral reset. Basically you can reset the neutral position on an N64 analog stick and setting the neutral position of the stick to all the way back essentially gives the player double the run speed when moving forward. This comes at the cost of your ability to back up via analog stick and can only be achieved with the specific back button.
Another thing that could potentially be optimized further is playing with a higher sensitivity to make turns quicker and get enemies out of your way faster. Enemies in general are not manipulated all that well in this TAS. It's a shame to have this TAS discovered in a "complete" state, but there's just such a large gap in understanding that someone with the knowledge could easily shave upwards of ten minutes off of this.
A little agreed, but some objects like stairs (had this on map 3) and switches (had on map 26) can not go down if you run too fast! Also I made lots compensative move to turn faster!
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
so this TAS of Doom64.
I like it and i am proud that someone like Dimon12321 has done one but it does have it's flaws. (i am not being mean when i say this stuff jlyk)
But the first flaw i noticed was at Level 2.
You key bumped but you missed then you did it again and you got it, this TAS should have you key bump only once, (little tip if you flick the switch to lower the platform you can delay the crushers this will shave a few seconds off)
The second mistake i see through the run is that you bump into enemies and walls, (a TAS should have very fluid movement, if for example you bump into an enemy that is impossible to avoid shoot it instead, This will most likely kill it and you can save frames)
Just so you know again i am not criticising you at all i am telling you how you can improve this.
Me and a friend Tyler Artrip will be making one during the school holidays and collage hours and stuff so this new run should be finished in about 7 too 8 months.
from the Doom fan OblivionWalker.
I’m sorry. Really I am... I am so sorry for what I did. Forgive me.
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6437
Location: The land down under.
Like this was notadressed towards Dimon already
Dimon this is towards Oblivious for not reading or checking sources or whatever he bloody does.
JLYK: Just Letting You Know
Thanks based Google.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
Like
This
Was
NotAdressed
Towards
Dimon
Already
Dimon this is towards Oblivious for not reading or checking sources or whatever he bloody does.
JLYK: Just Letting You Know
Thanks based Google.
you know i am not used to tasvideos yet give me a break please
I’m sorry. Really I am... I am so sorry for what I did. Forgive me.
you know i am not used to tasvideos yet give me a break please
I'm sorry, but you've been a part of these forums for almost 3 months now. That is more then enough time to 'get used' to the forums, considering how much you've posted in the past few months.
effort on the first draft means less effort on any draft thereafter
- some loser
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
Spikestuff wrote:
Like
This
Was
NotAdressed
Towards
Dimon
Already
Dimon this is towards Oblivious for not reading or checking sources or whatever he bloody does.
JLYK: Just Letting You Know
Thanks based Google.
Goddamn Spike. Posting feedback is not a crime. I know you dislike oblvionwalker, but there is no reason to get up his arse any time he makes a post.
If you're apparently so annoyed by him, then just stop interacting with him or going after him. Please.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
He tends to write things a certain way, as if to intentionally annoy or possibly troll others. But if he is right about the claims he made about the TAS, then that should be enough. I don't even know if the critisism he made of the run is fair. It would be nice if someone with knowledge of the game could verify his comments.
The reason I am sceptical is because he has been wrong on simular statements about other games in the past. (ref: Ocarina of Time)
In general, my TAS is rejected! I look forward to when someone will make a real TAS on this game which will be accepted! Use the corrections in discussion of my run: http://tasvideos.org/4267S.html and watch my 9-map WIP on my Youtube channel to see how you should pass! Use RAM Watch on Bizhawk to manipulate the highest damage of your guns. Read Graviton's comments in WIPs: they actually can help you! Don't honor me to make the run: I have no wish at all to do it! I'll try to help you, if you want. Good luck!
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Like this was notadressed towards Dimon already
Dimon this is towards Oblivious for not reading or checking sources or whatever he bloody does.
JLYK: Just Letting You Know
Thanks based Google.
I checked resources and watched the speedrun, but guess what??? They all somehow didn't help me with my run! What could I do? Not many are interested in speedrunning this game!
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6437
Location: The land down under.
Dimon12321 wrote:
I checked resources and watched the speedrun, but guess what???
That the only speedrun was done on the easiest difficulty which was done live at SDA live. (Basically no Hardest exists is what I'm agreeing with you here.)
Dimon12321 wrote:
They all somehow didn't help me with my run! What could I do?
Some of us know the minimum of the game, many just cannot accept it just by the look.
This is due to the knowledge of the other versions of Doom.
Dimon12321 wrote:
Not many are interested in speedrunning this game!
It's easier to explain but harder to do, some games just doesn't get enough attention which is a pain. This makes it harder to route and plan.
The minimum can only be given, it's all that can be worked with... and I agree it sucks, so I suggest to keep trying and optimize on yourself.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
I checked resources and watched the speedrun, but guess what???
That the only speedrun was done on the easiest difficulty which was done live at SDA live. (Basically no Hardest exists is what I'm agreeing with you here.)
Dimon12321 wrote:
They all somehow didn't help me with my run! What could I do?
Some of us know the minimum of the game, many just cannot accept it just by the look.
This is due to the knowledge of the other versions of Doom.
Dimon12321 wrote:
Not many are interested in speedrunning this game!
It's easier to explain but harder to do, some games just doesn't get enough attention which is a pain. This makes it harder to route and plan.
The minimum can only be given, it's all that can be worked with... and I agree it sucks, so I suggest to keep trying and optimize on yourself.
Yeah...! Spike, you're stubborn! =) I'm going to work on other Doom: second part on GBA! I have an idea about this port beside absolutely strangeness and ease of port itself, and if the idea works, I'll TAS it by all rules and improves (topic will be soon)! After some time, if my wish comes back to me, I'll continue doing my run!
"Some of us know the minimum of the game, many just cannot accept it just by the look." - the game needs more brightness and multi-route maps though most maps are tunnels which you should run through, along the way killing monsters!
"... some games just doesn't get enough attention which is a pain. This makes it harder to route and plan." - honestly, I don't understand why people TAS Atari games! I understand it's easy, but new generation of gamers, who didn't play it, just don't understand what is going on!
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Because I would love to do a collaborative TAS with Dimon12321.
Note doom is a game that I love and I would want to 100% do a TAS of this game.
EDIT: that would be boring as Grunz poo.
I’m sorry. Really I am... I am so sorry for what I did. Forgive me.
Because I would love to do a collaborative TAS with Dimon12321.
Note doom is a game that I love and I would want to 100% do a TAS of this game.
I would love to help out you and anyone else who wants to TAS this game. I have a ton of data and knowledge about this game that I can share, and I may be of some use finding relevant memory addresses and such. If there is interest in this I can try and write a lua script or something with speed values, damage values, etc.
