Submission Text Full Submission Page
This is a TAS for an obscure fighting game on the SNES, which follows a few conventions of the genre and breaks others.
Story mode has 6 characters only, the other modes allow to choose the boss characters. Character choice: Flash and Wonder Woman are the ones with stun combos,but her combo hasn't worked on the harder difficulty,which gives enemies more defense and better AI. Super and Green Archer can combo with multiple freeze attacks and everybody can throw on hit-stun (Batman has a lot of fun with this) and block-stun. Everybody has dashes forward(WW, Super, Despero, Darkseid hit for little damage with the dash)and back-dash with initial invincibility.
Properties: This game has no cancels (except for flight cancel but it's not very useful), you can only link moves. Wonder Woman has a hard time hitting her lasso which doesn't have a lot of priority, so Flash was chosen because not all characters could be manipulated into successive stuns.I saved 20 something seconds from previous attempt,which was rejected.NK criticism suggested at least 15 seconds could be by taking damage from the enemies instead of perfecting them.I still had to manipulate the last combo of each round to connect,as special moves seem to randomly trigger automatic blocking from the enemy,but i've NEVER seen this behavior after the first stun(maybe it's some kind of property for Restun combos).I also made my moves with frame advance and their inputs were calculated to start as soon as possible.
4 frames for hadouken/tornado(not even used lol) 7 frames for double hadoken motion=the Shoryuken-like running attack,most useful 5 frames for halfcircle = running teleport by skipping the first diagonal motion of the circle dash=tap twice in a direction in 3 frames
i didn't count the mash punch special time to input but i'm buffering it inside other moves like jump punch ,dash and teleport,this is the ultimate finisher,a lot faster when tested in many ending rounds,i believe it causes the damage faster but it cannot be comboed unless on the wall,normal moves distance the enemy from the punches
so the basic idea is to take damage or block in less than 91 frames(duration of the PERFECT message when you win without damage),and be in a good position to combo the enemy,jump punch is a good one,teleport requires the enemy to have really slow normals so you can hit him in the back.If i chose that special move to block,it probably means other moves wouldn't give me the combo opportunity needed or were 2 slow(like most projectiles in the game) but it surely happened in less than 91 frames in all rounds(the time from the round start to recovering completely from hit/block stun).
RNG luck manipulating was done by doing moves or walking in specific ways,sometimes even a frame can make the difference in behavior.Also relevant when finishing the round,as some guys simply would block early special moves and needed a normal before the special,costing time. :(
EUROPE version has less intro,176 frames faster, cancelling movie because it's pal running on ntsc speed probably useless since i won't get more information from it.


TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15628
Location: 127.0.0.1
This topic is for the purpose of discussing #5144: KusogeMan's SNES Justice League Task Force in 08:47.85
Experienced player (788)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1804
Location: Brasil
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18061 thread has a lot of info about each match,don't want to clutter submission even more
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Post subject: Re: #5144: grassini's SNES justice league task force in 08:47.85
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4128)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
TASVideoAgent wrote:
EUROPE version has less intro,176 frames faster
That is an incredibly poor reason to use the Europe version. Note that using an PAL/Europe version of a console game is against the site rules unless there is a very good reason. Also, you don't seem to take into account framerate differences with this comparison. The NTSC version runs at around 60hz, and the PAL version at around 50hz. At a quick glance, the intro takes about 1450 frames in the PAL version. Assuming the NTSC version is 176 frames longer than that (1624 frames), then the NTSC version intro would be roughly 00:27.07 seconds and the PAL version intro 00:29.00 seconds. So the Europe version actually loses a few seconds. (Not to mention that if the rest of the game doesn't compensate for the framerate difference, then the gameplay will be significantly slower as well).
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Publisher, Expert player (2656)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6449
Location: The land down under.
Terrible, absolutely terrible, using a PAL version, without any proper justification, besides a false one. NTSC, would catch up and overtake with ease on this game, and you decide to use a version, which is sloppy, and cuts frames of animations out. A nice YouTube video, which easily shows you the difference between 60hz and 50hz, within the menu screen of Super Mario World: Link to video
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.
Experienced player (788)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1804
Location: Brasil
sorry,i didn't know about the PAL issue,it's not a subject i'm familiar with, 1does it mean my faster time is actually slower? 2is the gameplay improvement relevant? 3why does the tasvideos forum frame counter count for faster time? 4what is the false rom?
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Samsara
She/They
Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2241)
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
It looks like the NTSC flag was triggered in the movie file, making the game run at 60fps. This IS technically an improvement over the previous run, but we can't allow PAL games running at 60fps as it's technically cheating. That's not an accusation of cheating, I'm sure it was either an accident or a misunderstanding, but we have to treat it as an unfair advantage to run a 50fps game in 60fps as it runs faster than normal that way. I would advise you to cancel this run and redo it on the (U) or (J) version (and maybe the most recent version of lsnes while you're at it), and I personally apologize for not bringing this to your attention sooner. I had intended to, I must've written a post then forgotten to actually post it.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family. Now infrequently posting on Bluesky
warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Experienced player (788)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1804
Location: Brasil
Thanks for the explanation,i heard of pal ntsc differences but i always thought that emulators would probably sort out this kind of thing,as commons users wouldn't know or realize about it. I was familiar with the japanese runs which had a hard time being accepted despite faster text,but since my version wouldn't subtract in that department i imagined it was ok to use the faster intro version. Criticism: Tasvideos clearly has a problem with site structure,i had a lot of work just to find the sections to submit wips and movies,i've NEVER found out how to reach this sections without using the search feature(which need previous knowledge of the existence of the section),i mean just by clicking alongo the site's layout of links. Also, creating a thread to share the making of the movie got me mostly no information,no tips,no help at all.So it's usually a common saying here to come and ask the person to share their work before submitting,and then you share it since its conception,and you still get nothing.What difference does it make if i cancel or not the run?When you think about it,i should actually submit MORE so i can have more FEEDBACK,because by not submitting,i got no info.This is a true incentive to SUBMIT SHIT ALL THE TIME AND CLOG THE SUBMISSIONS SECTION! Spikestuff,go [MOD EDIT: Extremely uncivil content removed. Please review the site rules on post content once more. Do this again and you'll get a site ban. --Mothrayas] Oh yeah,i'm insulting but read this as a request for the site maintenance: You're the reason this site needs a block button for individual users,so i can stop reading your shit and maybe you can stop reading mine. TL;DR: submitting shit gives more info than not submitting,so people have an incentive to submit shit runs,we need a block button integrated to the site instead of locking threads all the time,the site's layout could be more intuitive.
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4128)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
I would be glad to address any constructive criticism you have towards the site (although there are other topics for that), but I will not do so to the same post that in the next paragraph insults another user with various things I'm not going into detail about. A block button is currently not going to happen for a few reasons, some of which logistical, but even if it is, it will never stop other users from reading your posts. Just ignore the other person's messages and don't reply to them or react to them and all would be good just the same.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Experienced player (788)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1804
Location: Brasil
1/"webdesign should cater to experienced users" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)i'm pretty sure you know your way around the site,maybe you could try another metrics instead of optimized clicking from a person that knows where to search, i understand this is not a business site and the layout won't be taken seriously but don't hide its oddity. 2/Mothrayas,your reply is similar to this: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110108101036AA9zRws but you're more concerned about the civility than the grammar. 3/I 'd enjoy to have some feedback on the gameplay,i'd rather have you examining it now than later.
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4128)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
grassini wrote:
2/Mothrayas,your reply is similar to this: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110108101036AA9zRws but you're more concerned about the civility than the grammar.
That is not comparable. I hope you understand the difference between picking at grammar and refusing to debate an excessively rude post that violates forum rules. Once again, I will gladly address your criticism towards the site, but not in topics or to posts where you are being excessively uncivil. That is not being pedantic or using a fallacy, that is just demanding basic courtesy and following the forum rules.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Experienced player (691)
Joined: 11/23/2013
Posts: 2239
Location: Guatemala
2/ Mothrayas, your reply is similar to this: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110108101036AA9zRws But you're more concerned about the civility than the grammar.
Sweet Jesus...
Here, my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/dekutony
Editor, Skilled player (1824)
Joined: 8/25/2013
Posts: 1200
grassini wrote:
1/"webdesign should cater to experienced users" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)i'm pretty sure you know your way around the site,maybe you could try another metrics instead of optimized clicking from a person that knows where to search, i understand this is not a business site and the layout won't be taken seriously but don't hide its oddity.
?
grassini wrote:
2/Mothrayas,your reply is similar to this: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110108101036AA9zRws but you're more concerned about the civility than the grammar.
To be fair , you did just insult Spikestuff because he pointed out NTSC vs. PAL differences, so it's not like you have the higher ground here.
grassini wrote:
3/I 'd enjoy to have some feedback on the gameplay,i'd rather have you examining it now than later.
There's no point in doing that right now until this is redone on a 60FPS version of the game. How can we possibly tell you if it's optimized or not if you're losing 10 frames a second? We're not your baby sitters, you should be able to tell US if it's optimized or not, not the other way around.
effort on the first draft means less effort on any draft thereafter - some loser
Invariel
He/Him
Editor, Site Developer, Player (171)
Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 539
Location: Toronto, Ontario
grassini wrote:
Tasvideos clearly has a problem with site structure,i had a lot of work just to find the sections to submit wips and movies,i've NEVER found out how to reach this sections without using the search feature(which need previous knowledge of the existence of the section),i mean just by clicking alongo the site's layout of links.
Articles -> Movies -> Movie Making -> Movie file storage for WIPs. Edit: [2:41 PM] <xy2_> Invariel: alternatively, the "Upload a WIP..." button on FP (front page)
I am still the wizard that did it. "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata <scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Post subject: Providing an encode would increase the chances of feedback
Masterjun
He/Him
Site Developer, Expert player (2047)
Joined: 10/12/2010
Posts: 1185
Location: Germany
I don't want to say that providing an encode would increase the chances of feedback but providing an encode would increase the chances of feedback.
Warning: Might glitch to credits I will finish this ACE soon as possible (or will I?)
Experienced player (788)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1804
Location: Brasil
Mothrayas wrote:
grassini wrote:
2/Mothrayas,your reply is similar to this: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110108101036AA9zRws but you're more concerned about the civility than the grammar.
That is not comparable. I hope you understand the difference between picking at grammar and refusing to debate an excessively rude post that violates forum rules. Once again, I will gladly address your criticism towards the site, but not in topics or to posts where you are being excessively uncivil. That is not being pedantic or using a fallacy, that is just demanding basic courtesy and following the forum rules.
well,i'm not offending anyone right now and you still made no comment on it anyways,seems like the exact case where you'll ignore it forever because i was rude once. @randomgametaser. i'm pretty aware of how much i optimized the run and the gameplay won't change that much between versions,even with funky speed settings,this should be comparable.With the wrong speed,both versions play the same.No babysitting. I do have a beef with spikestuff,and he claims he doesn't. He gave me an answer i don't find very respectful.IMO,the answer he gave me is for someone you do have a problem with. if i had a problem with pointing out the PAL settings i'd be pissed at Samsara and Mothrayas too ,the first being the one who gave the explanation about how my tas is a pal game running in an impossible speed.There is a difference between saying this is terrible and false and explaining i made a mistake because i'm not running at the correct speed,which is something i never imagined i had to change. @masterjun i made encode of the wip only,it wasn't very relevant(didn't raise interest) so i didn't do for the submission. @invarielhum... it's nice to know the correct path to find this or that specific thing that i'm using as an example but: https://www.nngroup.com/articles/usability-101-introduction-to-usability/ none of us have research to back it up,but i believe the memorability would be the weakest quality component on the site.
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Invariel
He/Him
Editor, Site Developer, Player (171)
Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 539
Location: Toronto, Ontario
grassini wrote:
well,i'm not offending anyone right now and you still made no comment on it anyways,seems like the exact case where you'll ignore it forever because i was rude once.
He's stated that this thread is not the place to discuss upgrading the website. This isn't the place to discuss upgrading the website.
grassini wrote:
I do have a beef with spikestuff,and he claims he doesn't. He gave me an answer i don't find very respectful.IMO,the answer he gave me is for someone you do have a problem with.
Don't bring your beef with Spikestuff onto the forums. Keep it to yourself.
grassini wrote:
@invarielhum... it's nice to know the correct path to find this or that specific thing that i'm using as an example but: https://www.nngroup.com/articles/usability-101-introduction-to-usability/ none of us have research to back it up,but i believe the memorability would be the weakest quality component on the site.
And nobody has the time to do a full site redesign at the moment. You wanted to know how to get to the page which lets you upload WIPs, that's how you get to it without using the site's search functionality. Again, this isn't the place to discuss upgrading the website.
I am still the wizard that did it. "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata <scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Samsara
She/They
Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2241)
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
All that being said, we still can't accept this run, so you can either accept that you made a mistake and cancel the submission, or you can keep arguing and just wait for the inevitable rejection, further risking a ban if you keep up the toxic behavior. Why not try seeing if you can port this exact run to the (U) version? Perhaps if you account for the extra 3 seconds of intro but keep the rest of the input the same, it'll still sync just fine... I mean I doubt it would due to luck manipulation, but it's always worth a shot. EDIT: I see the issue. From the WIPs, it seemed like you were working off your original (U) version run, which would have had the NTSC flag tripped by default, and switching to the (E) version kept the flag triggered, making it run at 60fps. Absolutely an honest mistake if you weren't aware of the differences between (U) and (E)... Although if you'd read the Movie Rules about version choice...
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family. Now infrequently posting on Bluesky
warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Experienced player (788)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1804
Location: Brasil
i don't know how to hex edit,i've tried a few times already,is there any difference between rejecting and canceling a movie? if there isn't,cancel/reject in peace.
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Invariel
He/Him
Editor, Site Developer, Player (171)
Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 539
Location: Toronto, Ontario
The major difference between cancelling a submission (yourself) and having it rejected (by a judge) is that one of them is voluntary, and one happens under intense scrutiny.
I am still the wizard that did it. "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata <scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Samsara
She/They
Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2241)
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
grassini wrote:
i don't know how to hex edit,i've tried a few times already,is there any difference between rejecting and canceling a movie?
Rejecting has to be done by a Judge after 3 days of the submission being on the workbench. Cancelling can be done by the author for any reason. Usually cancellation is the wiser option, as too many outright rejections can lead to a temporary/permanent removal of your submission privileges. Just edit the submission text and set it to cancelled if you want, it should be the only option you have other than "new".
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family. Now infrequently posting on Bluesky
warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Experienced player (788)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1804
Location: Brasil
is there any hope the judging process can give me more information about other mistakes on the run?this would be an incentive to not cancel
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Invariel
He/Him
Editor, Site Developer, Player (171)
Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 539
Location: Toronto, Ontario
I feel that all of the information you're likely to get about your run has been provided to you at this point. There's no real way to assess whether your current input file will sync or run on the (U) version of the ROM, and if it does, you can look for optimizations once that happens.
I am still the wizard that did it. "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata <scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Samsara
She/They
Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2241)
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
Literally that, yeah. Clearly it's an improvement over the rejected submission, and that's great, but there's no way to know how valid it is until we see an updated (U) version run. The movie in its current form actually breaks the rules of the site and cannot be accepted, so leaving it on the queue will do nothing but lead to rejection down the road and possibly attract further drama.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family. Now infrequently posting on Bluesky
warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Experienced player (788)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1804
Location: Brasil
it won't sync(unless hex edit magic),that's not what i'm looking for,i'll make a new one,i'm just asking if in the judging process the person will actually look at the movie and watch it.
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Samsara
She/They
Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2241)
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
grassini wrote:
i'm just asking if in the judging process the person will actually look at the movie and watch it.
That is literally our job. EDIT: Whoever judges the new run will likely cross-reference this one, although it will likely not be a huge factor in determining the optimization of the new run due to differences between versions. We will judge the new run as fairly as any other run on its own merits.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family. Now infrequently posting on Bluesky
warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.