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If we call Moons Showcase, and then we call the Demo class Showcase, that would be stupid. We don't want those 2 to be the same thing. If we call them using synonyms that would also be confusing because people would not know the difference. We're closer to having the Demo class that we were back then, and my current proposal is Playground, because it's basically a creativity sandbox. I don't want to rename Moons to something that consists of several words. If the Demo class is called Playground and it's submission-only, renaming Moons to Showcase feels good to me. If we call the Demo class Showcase, renaming Moons to Showcase as well feels bad to me. The thing with "Additional goals, Exotic goals, Unconventional goals, Atypical goals" is that Playground is also for those, just for super esoteric ones that don't even fit into Moons. And yes Moons will remain an entertainment based class because it's how we accept non-standard goals.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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This was the initial talk in #bizhawk https://pastebin.com/aDYCUPjE And then I asked slamo and Dacicus to provide some insight on what's needed https://pastebin.com/KUdpvZBC I haven't tested how 86Box works with different media types and how many it supports at once, but here's a list of files PCem works with:
  • ROM files for a given machine. They also determine what will be available in emulated hardware options, may not be relevant for hawk.
  • NVR file that stores battery info of the BIOS. Not every setup needs it to launch. Not sure if any setup will create this while running. UPDATE: If NVR is missing and that firmware uses it, it pulls it from a default NVR file for that firmware and starts from that
  • 2 floppy disks can be loaded at once. The system can record to them. Swappable.
  • 1 CD can be loaded at once. Can't be recorded to? Swappable.
  • 1 HDD can be loaded at once. The system records to it a lot. Can't be swapped? UPDATE: Some firmwares can use up to 4 hard drives (3 if you're using a CD drive).
  • Textual config file for machine description, listing what devices it consists of and where on the host they are. Each configured machine has its own file. 86Box has only one file for whatever the current config is.
PCem also supports zip drives and cassettes, but for games those don't seem to be needed. So writes to those files will need to be captured and stored in a save RAM style, so a new movie could start from that. This is important because if you install something without capturing emulated timing fully, resulting hashes will be wrong and the movie may desync. This is why we require game installation to be inside a movie (either main or separate). Games come in the form of media images or in the form of file bunches. In order to load the latter into PCem one needs to create a compatible image on the host (for example using mkisofs). Only then such an image can be sent to the emulator. So since so many things have to be loaded at once, I thought that maybe extending functionality of Multi-disk Bundler could work? It allows us specify the platform, so it works fine as a core loader. And it even already supports loading several game files at once for Sega. What it doesn't have is knowing the difference between loading in parallel and swapping. For most cores it's the latter (PSX disks for example). It could also calculate hashes (for huge files - on demand). This would help with setting up MAME probably (tho simply renaming the game zip to something that launches the MAME core is a great idea too), and most definitely with Amiga emulators since they can load several mediums at once too. In terms of porting to hawk, PCem is has been on hiatus recently and we can't tell how active it will remain in the future. While 86Box has a huge team and is very active.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Okay so for the purpose of any potential future reorganization, it should be okay to have these movies as VS (neither NES, nor Arcade), and then we can list them alongside other systems that are close to them. So we need the parser to have VS and to be able to read it from FCEUX and NESHawk movies. But I never checked if they store this info... EDIT: Wait isn't Pinball (VS).nes just a conversion into an actual NES ROM? What's the Arcade equivalent if there is any? Arcade ROM called pinball is not relevant it seems. MAME doesn't even run Pinball (VS).nes: Fatal error: Unimplemented Mapper 99 Okay yeah I guess we'll have to keep those as NES and VS as game version. Too much overhead infrastructure to implement in emulators and parsers otherwise.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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For the record, a lot of subtitle problems with A2600 and other tiny resolution consoles can be helped by simply prescaling the needed dimension by some integer factor. For example 2x for A2600 width. If we're going back to 1x encodes in the future for whatever reason, this workaround should be used to not cause subtitle placement hell.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Congratulations and good luck!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Added.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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It would be weird to have ACE in the verification movie that gives you ridiculous advantages, and then starting NG+ from there saying "no there are absolutely no glitches in this movie, only in the verification setup, so we don't need the tag". Now assigning it tags that are only relevant to the setup feels weird too. But IMO "hiding" things that directly affect gameplay of NG+, but are set up in advance, is more misleading.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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For those vids my browser says the files are corrupted.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Also please add sync instructions as movie annotations http://tasvideos.org/EmulatorResources/LibTAS.html#DocumentSyncRequirements You can upload the fixed movie to http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/my#uploadfile and post the link here.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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There was a long chain of events that led to the current situation. In Thread #14601: Movies labeled "glitched" that shouldn't be a few users agreed to go back and change all branch labels, including obsoleted movies, according to some new system they came up with, without getting a proper community consensus. That resulted in https://i.imgur.com/J0WfHmC.png https://i.imgur.com/fizlbWn.png and other funny branches that made the staff team interfere and have a proper discussion: Thread #15203: "glitched" label vs. "no x glitch" label. Staff agreement was to stop using blank branch as an indication of any%. But community still halved on how to handle branch labels, so I suggested a solution that didn't blindly follow either side, and didn't force the other side to accept what they hated. I suggested to rely on statistics, and to replace the "glitched" label with something more descriptive. Major skip glitch (it's when we invented the term too) is not present in most games, and it's not a regular in-game option, so it's a rare thing in general and it needs to be labeled. But there are games where most movies use such a technique, for example SM64. So we just highlight which branch has unique goals: [2062] N64 Super Mario 64 "70 stars, no Backwards Long Jump" by Jesus, Kyman, MICKEY_Vis11189, MoltovM, Nahoc, snark, sonicpacker, ToT, CeeSammerZ, coin2884, Eru, Goronem, Mokkori, Nekuran, Nothing693 & pasta in 42:58.52 stands out from all other SM64 branches by avoiding BLJ. Similar cases: [1937] Genesis Sonic the Hedgehog "no zips" by Aglar in 17:36.58 [2950] GBA Sonic Advance "Tails, no Ultraspindash" by GoddessMaria in 13:33.54 [4057] NES Mega Man 2 "zipless" by warmCabin in 27:16.17 Some people were still unhappy, but the final thing we could do to reduce annoyance was creating a flag to unambiguously signify what the site counts as any% under our tier class rules: http://tasvideos.org/FastestCompletion.html So we actually don't use blank label for anything special. It's only left blank if there's no unique goal in a movie compared to other branches. Which is why I suggested to call it a trunk. It makes sense because there can't be 2 current publications with blank branches for the same game: to be able to distinguish them from one another we need to label one of them, or both of them, depending on rarity of their goals. But when we applied the new system, we did not update labels for obsoleted movies initially. Not that leaving them wrong was the goal, we just didn't get around to doing that until some years later. So what's happening with Aria of Sorrow is obsoleted movies not being relabeled to match the new (as of 2014) system. Movies with major skip glitches should be labeled to tell the nature of the glitch they use (not the glitch name, just its main effect on gameplay). Probably it's just "warp glitch". To me it's common sense to assign explicit labels to things that are unique, and to things that choose common options (like player count). Of course that will result in branchless movies not having goals in common across different games, because different games allow different goals, and the result may look inconsistent. Now "inbounds" became a label because it was a unique feature of the branches that have it. Even if there are several such branches for some game, it's still only featured in minority of branches. In the case of AoS, most branches use zips, so we don't highlight that. One branch uses death warp glitch, and we highlight that by its gameplay effect. And 2 branches ban zipping entirely, so we also highlight that. I hope this explains some wonders. If there are ways to improve the current system considering those past problems we used to have, I'm interested! And it's absolutely true that the system that was introduced after this thread was created is absolute nightmare: http://tasvideos.org/PublisherGuidelines.html#Structure Just (IMO) not in terms of labeling glitches. That part I at least understand and can easily explain how to apply.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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You need some regex help, but I don't know regex.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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How big is it if you 7zip it?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Post subject: #tasvideos IRC logs
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Does anyone have those? Ideally going as far back as possible, and with minimal gaps. I wonder if people just wiped everything related to freenode,
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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An important question is: why does the goal make sense? I think it makes sense because it fully relies on in-game options (not just settings but modes). NG+ is one of them, character choice is another. If 2 movies that are entertaining and similar don't have the difference in those in-game options, I'm not ready to accept them to Moons. Rejection would indeed feel discouraging IMO. We can cancel it for now and then uncancel and rejudge when the rules are updated. And I'd still want to look at a rule draft before doing anything with this movie, because I need to understand what kind of direction we want to be going with movies like this. It's not only about save anchor, but also about character choice on top of that. Simon's rating is rather solid, even though feedback in the submission thread mentioned that it still looked repetitive, just short enough not to get bored. I think this movie looks crazier. Is there a way to play some other mode as Simon? What are people's opinions on obsoleting Simon? Personally I think, if we're going for Simon as a separate branch, he really needs to do something different to showcase why he's a great char. Ideally he would avoid this spam attack, so some tactics could be involved and the spirit of the original game could shine. Then it would make perfect sense to have him as a separate movie by regular Moons principles. Until then, I would obsolete Simon.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Go for it!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Samsara wrote:
Correct. There's a bit more to talk about with AoS branching, but I'll bring that up in the relevant thread.
Should I wait with unobsoletion and rebranching then?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Samsara wrote:
[1478] GBA Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow by Kriole in 20:58.62 also avoids OoB glitches. I feel like if we revive all souls, this run should similarly be branched as "inbounds".
So only those 2 branches would be inbounds, and all the runs they obsolete?
Samsara wrote:
"warp glitch" should also be rebranched to GEG, but that's not relevant to the discussion.
Done!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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It's a Moons-only branch so it needs to be different enough from existing ones. If it's not, it either obsoletes Simon or has to be rejected (feedback is really lacking so far, even tho the run is very well made).
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Samsara wrote:
They're all related, but different enough to warrant the usage of separate categories in my opinion. Both zipping and the death glitch allow you to go out of bounds, but death glitch allows for a lot more freedom in where you can go. Basically, loading certain "rooms" out of bounds will crash the game, which limits how powerful zipping is as you're always going through room transitions. Death glitch completely disables room transitions, allowing for essentially unimpeded map traversal, including through OoB areas that would otherwise crash the game since they're not being loaded. Death glitch and zipping are both used in the published "all souls" movie, where Kriole's movie avoids them completely, and the routes differ drastically between the two runs.
Sounds like we want to resurrect it as "all souls, inbounds", with that label, so it's clear that it's a special limitation? Are there other branches avoiding OOB? And how does the warp glitch compare to those 2 other glitches?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Movement is very different from [2455] GBA Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance "Simon, Boss Rush, Hard" by Robert_Ordis in 07:51.27, but bosses are killed in a very similar way and die almost instantly, and that's basically all this mode has. While it's cool to showcase Simon, I don't know if these two movies are different enough to co-exist in the end. Will need much more feedback that there currently is!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Fortranm wrote:
That being said, if ending sequence disruption is permitted for games where the ending doesn't even update the save file, shall [2725] SNES Final Fantasy VI by keylie & KadMony in 3:11:39.46 be moved to be branchless with the current branchless movie rebranched to be "glitchless" or something similar if applicable? This is assuming the ending sequence of FF6 on SNES isn't meant to have effects. I don't know enough about this game to tell if that's the case.
I don't know the game either, but the judgment for #4790: keylie & KadMony's SNES Final Fantasy VI "game end glitch" in 32:54.55 said the ending in GEG was fixed so it needs to obsolete "sketch glitch" which didn't have a proper ending. We need more details on why it is or isn't proper. And if it was fine all along, it looks like [2725] SNES Final Fantasy VI by keylie & KadMony in 3:11:39.46 should obsolete [549] SNES Final Fantasy VI by erokky in 4:05:52.87 which avoids one significant glitch but not another and is not rated well?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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If you randomly hack the save file and make the result mandatory for a movie sync, that sounds like simply submitting a video file with no explanation how to recreate it. Even if you can't get a certain save file directly from gameplay, there should be some description on how exactly to tweak it so it makes the movie sync. Game genie codes are just strings of text and can be preserved in a bunch of ways, for example directly put into submission description. Completely unrecreatable save files can't be pasted as text. And there's even little to verify whether it's worth accepting (by a team of game mods) because you don't even know what is there and what was changed.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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http://tasvideos.org/Guidelines.html#DoPossibleResearch Looks like the human record wasn't checked, because it uses Save & Quit to get back to the starting point and save a whole bunch of time on walking. Overall still slower due to human execution.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Is it still available anywhere?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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duuuuude5 wrote:
It allows for movies that break site rules but are still very entertaining, such as freeruns/glitch showcases, or also movies that start from a hacked, unverifiable save file or use game genie codes to create interesting or funny gameplay.
By unverifiable do you mean unreproducible? If you can't explain how you got that save and it just has to be preserved or the run would desync, that sounds like a bad thing to allow.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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