This topic is for the purpose of discussing #2404: mat89's NES Donkey Kong 3 in 01:04.29

A much faster run was rejected for bad game choice. [EDIT] I stand corrected, that run completed only three stages or four.

om, nom, nom... blech, bitter!

A much faster run was rejected for bad game choice.

Just to be fair, Diman completed 3 levels, and this one 4... the quality of this run is better than Diman's. It's still a bad game choice though, and I would have voted no. Edit: I'll elaborate a bit. I don't think a TAS of this game looks significantly different from how a regular run would look. No particularly interesting strategies are used... and generally, the more effort is put into a TAS, the more entertaining it is. I'm not saying a whole lot of more effort should have been put into this, or even could have been (although I would be surprised if it's frame perfect)... but that's for me an indication that it's a bad game choice.

I loved this game growing up, but it really doesn't make for a good TAS game. I commend your effort though.

Shouldn't this be in the gruefood?

It was revived.

Rejecting due to not beating all all known records as stated in the Guidelines. Seems this one completes more levels. I'll let the audience decide its fate then.

The Grue puked it up, but I don't think he's done with it.

Wow... it seems like somebody was trying to cash in on Donkey Kong's fame with a bad game. There's no variety in this one at all. It seems like the run is decent technically... the only real delays happen on the first round before the heat gun is obtained. Also, it seems like stopping after 4 levels is a pretty arbitrary stopping point: it's not clear to me that the game really loops from that point onward. However, it seemed well-done enough and it was quick, so a weak Meh vote.

I played and enjoyed this game... but does this game is available on atari or this is only for NES ?

The main thing I'm considering with the re-judging of this submission is whether it is a clear completion as stated in the Vault rules. Do I need to clarify on games that repeat endlessly?

If a game repeats endlessly, then I think one loop of the game should be played, and then input stops. That's been the standard for runs like Circus Charlie and Donkey Kong, for instance. That convention should go in the rules somewhere (it can't hurt to add it), but that wouldn't just apply to Vault movies. It would apply to any submitted run.

If a game repeats endlessly, then I think one loop of the game should be played, and then input stops. That's been the standard for runs like Circus Charlie and Donkey Kong, for instance. That convention should go in the rules somewhere (it can't hurt to add it), but that wouldn't just apply to Vault movies. It would apply to any submitted run.

Well, you just KNOW someone is going to cry BS on that if a TAS of Nes Donkey Kong pops up as there IS a proven Kill Screen for it. [Tom Votava is one of the few to have reached it] I mean I agree otherwise... end it after 1 loop... but I am sure there will be other times where it will become arguable that a secondary stopping point would be desireable.. such as if, for instance, Circus Charlie maxed out at some point that was a bit over a loop or so... as long as entertainment was provided. Atm, with this case, as I am unaware of DK3 having a KS.. I'd say this single loop does the trick and good to go for the vault. Mr. Kelly R. Flewin

Killscreens really aren't that impressive for TASing, though. It depends on whether the loops offer any variety, like faster enemies or higher point bonuses. If the different loops of the game offered significantly different play (like in the Ghosts and Goblins series of games), that would be different. However, if you're not rewarded with a special ending or different play, it wouldn't actually be interesting. Maybe a good rule of thumb is: could other loops of the game be played merely by doing copying and minor hex-editing of the input? If so, and if the reward for doing so is near inconsequential, it's not worth it. Going to the kill screen doesn't offer any significant extra skill as a TASer in these cases. In theory, somebody can make a run of an old arcade game that hits the killscreen, and maybe that run will make it into the Vault. I pity whoever watches the whole thing, though... Oh god, that means Desert Bus probably has to end up in the Vault! And many many April Fool's runs, which technically are records! (Barney's Hide and Seek, for instance...)

Stopping after one loop seems perfectly fine to me. Is there a rule for games that require you to play the game twice to complete it though (like NES Ghosts 'n' Goblins)?

When both/every loop(s) are the same aside from difficulty, permission is usually granted for the use of a password/savestate/SRAM to start on the hardest loop. See: [303] NES Metal Storm by TheAxeMan in 12:54.23 (Though that particular one, IMO, broke the rules by acquiring the fireball weapon in the verification movie to use in the actual movie.)

Just for clarification, are we Unrejecting all the games we rejected for bad game choice? Because I submitted 2 Marios Time Machine videos last year and I think that was considered "Bad Game Choice" after submiting the second one.

Just for clarification, are we Unrejecting all the games we rejected for bad game choice? Because I submitted 2 Marios Time Machine videos last year and I think that was considered "Bad Game Choice" after submiting the second one.

Yes, however, optimization is still an issue. If you feel like we should have unrejected your movie, please post in the thread for that game.

Yes, however, optimization is still an issue. If you feel like we should have unrejected your movie, please post in the thread for that game.

I actually canceled it. Should I just un-cancel it w/permission?

You don't need permission to uncancel your own submission :P

OK, thanks.

This run can be improved by manipulating better luck, suboptimizing location and better shooting (instead of rapid shooting). This means I'm going to submit my run soon. I will use game A too because game B only increases donkey kongs health and makes the power up drop down so late, making the run just much slower.