I have a simple question, I read the whole thread but couldn't find an anwser : Is ACE needed to get the cloud, or is it getting the cloud that leads to ACE?
I have a simple question, I read the whole thread but couldn't find an anwser : Is ACE needed to get the cloud, or is it getting the cloud that leads to ACE?
ACE is needed to get the cloud.
Well, then I guess it would be logical not to use the cloud in a "warps" run that would avoid ACE. Though I think there will be a problem when the RTA any% will get under 10:00, since people will say "what, the TAS is only few seconds faster than the RTA (if not slower)? There's a problem here."
I problably made mistakes, sorry for my bad English, I'm French :v
I have a simple question, I read the whole thread but couldn't find an anwser : Is ACE needed to get the cloud, or is it getting the cloud that leads to ACE?
ACE is needed to get the cloud.
Since when?
Warning: Might glitch to creditsI will finish this ACE soon as possible
(or will I?)
I have a simple question, I read the whole thread but couldn't find an anwser : Is ACE needed to get the cloud, or is it getting the cloud that leads to ACE?
ACE is needed to get the cloud.
Since when?
It isn't ? Then the cloud can be used in a warps run. You just have to say "I use a glitch that allows me to get a cloud as a power-up. As a side effect, it can lead to ACE, but in this run I decided not to use it."
I problably made mistakes, sorry for my bad English, I'm French :v
I have a simple question, I read the whole thread but couldn't find an anwser : Is ACE needed to get the cloud, or is it getting the cloud that leads to ACE?
The glitch always jumps to open bus. The reason why the game can continue is just because it managed to get back to the normal code again, but the fact that it executed open bus makes it not different from the ACE run.
So it, for all intentions and purposes, is ACE. It's just that the due to the way the memory corruption leading to it occurs, the ACE is short-lived and it returns to normal functions, but it is indeed running (short) arbitrary code that is of the user's choice.
I think it begs the question as to why both runs coexist instead of one being obsoleted.
I think it begs the question as to why both runs coexist instead of one being obsoleted.
Which 2 runs?
The 42 second one is the only one that uses this glitch that always jumps to open bus. The 10 minute run does not use this glitch. Orb glitch is a different one.
Warning: Might glitch to creditsI will finish this ACE soon as possible
(or will I?)
I think it begs the question as to why both runs coexist instead of one being obsoleted.
Which 2 runs?
The 42 second one is the only one that uses this glitch that always jumps to open bus. The 10 minute run does not use this glitch. Orb glitch is a different one.
I believe there was/is some confusion. What is the "cloud glitch"? I thought that referred to the generation of the Orb/other glitch items.
Regardless, we're still talking about a run that uses memory corruption to skip the game and one that uses it to skip portions and keeping both of them published together.
I believe there was/is some confusion. What is the "cloud glitch"? I thought that referred to the generation of the Orb/other glitch items.
Orb glitch is when you eat a Clappin' Chuck while having a fireflower.
Cloud glitch is when you eat a Chargin' Chuck while being small Mario.
Dyshonest wrote:
we're still talking about a run that uses memory corruption to skip the game and one that uses it to skip portions and keeping both of them published together.
Yeah, they also both use hopping glitch which makes moving faster and they both use double Yoshi glitch to make Yoshi spawn faster, so what?
Warning: Might glitch to creditsI will finish this ACE soon as possible
(or will I?)
I believe there was/is some confusion. What is the "cloud glitch"? I thought that referred to the generation of the Orb/other glitch items.
Orb glitch is when you eat a Clappin' Chuck while having a fireflower.
Cloud glitch is when you eat a Chargin' Chuck while being small Mario.
Dyshonest wrote:
we're still talking about a run that uses memory corruption to skip the game and one that uses it to skip portions and keeping both of them published together.
Yeah, they also both use hopping glitch which makes moving faster and they both use double Yoshi glitch to make Yoshi spawn faster, so what?
I fail to see how glitches (that largely stem from games not being prepared to accept input so quickly generally) like that are comparable to memory corruption skipping parts of/all of a game.
The speedrunners are already using the cloud glitch and the WR is
http://www.twitch.tv/xpaco5/c/4469967
I don't think there's any reason to NOT use it in a any% TAS as well (as ACE requires extra controllers and buttons anyway, alright?).
I fail to see how it is possible to say that all memory corruption glitches are the same.
Because when it gets down to it you're basically saying "well this run skips the whole game", "well this one skips most of it, but some of it is still remaining".
It's just a bit redundant to have one run with total skipping and a second, coexisting run that doesn't skip "as much". The only coexisting run should be one without such skips.
Again I'd like to bring up A Link to the Past. We currently have two runs. One with tremendous multidirectional glitching to beat it in about two minutes, and one that goes through the game "normally" (as in, all dungeons cleared).
If an ACE glitch was found that can be activated in the first screen of the game, should it obsolete the two-minute run? By your logic... no, because the two-minute one shows off more of the game.
When you get down to it memory corruption and ACE are one in the same - the former is only useful when it ends the game for you or allows you access to glitchy, overpowered stats or items (see: the A Link to the Past "Four Swords Palace" GBA run we have here), the latter is a result of the former and is more powerful due to better control (though that's not to say memory corruption doesn't allow for absurdly fast clears).
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Dyshonest wrote:
Masterjun wrote:
I fail to see how it is possible to say that all memory corruption glitches are the same.
Because when it gets down to it you're basically saying "well this run skips the whole game", "well this one skips most of it, but some of it is still remaining".
It's just a bit redundant to have one run with total skipping and a second, coexisting run that doesn't skip "as much". The only coexisting run should be one without such skips.
Yeah, I agree, let's un-publish every any% or warped run for every game that has ACE potential or a low% run. While we're at it, let's un-publish the SM64 70 star run because it gets 70 more stars than necessary and 50 less than the whole game. Say goodbye to several Super Metroid runs since they get unnecessary items and go to areas not in the ACE run. So long, any run that strays off the absolute fastest route to get something that would heavily speed up the run. You're supposed to skip as much as possible, not just most of it.
You shouldn't even be able to take the warped route intended by the developers, entering each intended level and playing it in some way and possibly ending them early due to some form of 100% consistent and easily replicable memory corruption! Because all memory corruption is exactly the same, and there's another run that does entirely different things and crashes the game and rewrites the game code and calls the ending! That's the exact same thing as using Yoshi to eat an enemy, right? Of course it is!
Your logic is absolutely brilliant and not at all idiotic and uninformed! The future of TASvideos is upon us, and it starts on page 127 of the Super Mario World thread!
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 | CohostwarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
I fail to see how it is possible to say that all memory corruption glitches are the same.
Because when it gets down to it you're basically saying "well this run skips the whole game", "well this one skips most of it, but some of it is still remaining".
It's just a bit redundant to have one run with total skipping and a second, coexisting run that doesn't skip "as much". The only coexisting run should be one without such skips.
Yeah, I agree, let's un-publish every any% or warped run for every game that has ACE potential or a low% run. While we're at it, let's un-publish the SM64 70 star run because it gets 70 more stars than necessary and 50 less than the whole game. Say goodbye to several Super Metroid runs since they get unnecessary items and go to areas not in the ACE run. So long, any run that strays off the absolute fastest route to get something that would heavily speed up the run. You're supposed to skip as much as possible, not just most of it.
You shouldn't even be able to take the warped route intended by the developers, entering each intended level and playing it in some way and possibly ending them early due to some form of 100% consistent and easily replicable memory corruption! Because all memory corruption is exactly the same, and there's another run that does entirely different things and crashes the game and rewrites the game code and calls the ending! That's the exact same thing as using Yoshi to eat an enemy, right? Of course it is!
Your logic is absolutely brilliant and not at all idiotic and uninformed! The future of TASvideos is upon us, and it starts on page 127 of the Super Mario World thread!
Hyperbole/10. Can't argue with (il)logic like that.
You're missing the point though. When two runs both use extensive memory corruption, it really is "well this run skips the whole game", "well this one skips most of it, but some of it is still remaining".
@Eszik: Nice linking the Mega Man run, which IS redundant amongst the other ACE one.
The falsely-titled "warp glitch" Pokemon run, though impressive, is also redundant. It uses ACE to reach the end just like the Pokemon Yellow one, it merely executes the code differently.
When the ACE run of Mega Man was submitted a lot of people, myself and Bisqwit included said Deign's run prior (which didn't use any memory corruption/ACE to skip stages) to the 12-minute one should've been the coexisting one considering there was severe redundancy between the two runs.
Dyshonest: what exactly are you trying to say? That each minority's opinion must be forced in the face of the majority?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
>>When two runs both use extensive memory corruption,
I think the disAgreement here is what qualifies as extensive. Are you opposed to the smashola which allows players to skip part of a level? I mean, If youre going to skip part of a level, you may as well just skip straight to the credits, right?
Memory corruption severe enough to skip significant portions of the game (a stage, multiple stages, etc).
Why not allow Masterjun's April 1st submission? We have runs that use ACE in less efficient manners than other, coexisting runs.
So you are saying that skipping most of one stage and skipping 11 stages and the overworld and the final boss is the same level of skippage, but that skipping most of one stage and skipping half a stage is not. ?
As I said, I think the main disagreement here is what qualifies as extensive.
Dyshonest wrote:
"well this run skips the whole game", "well this one skips most of it, but some of it is still remaining".
You have not accurately described what happens in smw runs. The 42s run skips most of the game. The any% run skips most of one level (about 1/10 of the run, not "most of the game"), while adding another level.
The main problem is that both SMW runs don't use the same trick at all. The "game end glitch" one uses memory corruption to order the game to warp to the credits, while the "warps" one uses memory corruption to get an item that allows a level to be skipped. Memory corruption doesn't directly leads to a level skip - it just makes a glitched item appear in the item box.
I problably made mistakes, sorry for my bad English, I'm French :v
The main problem is that both SMW runs don't use the same trick at all. The "game end glitch" one uses memory corruption to order the game to warp to the credits, while the "warps" one uses memory corruption to get an item that allows a level to be skipped. Memory corruption doesn't directly leads to a level skip - it just makes a glitched item appear in the item box.
It just feels very arbitrary to have both there when they both skip levels via memory corruption.
Your attempt at hyperbole earlier was funny, but incorrect. I think the other person had it better.
Companion runs to games with "game end glitch" (aka ACE) runs shouldn't be featuring levels skipped via memory corruption. My example before still stands - it boils down to "well this run skips stuff too. It just doesn't skip as much!"
Memory corruption is a very iffy thing once you start allowing it in multiple branches, especially in games where it is possible to execute whatever you may desire via memory corruption (like this, or Mega Man, SML2, Pokemon, etc).
