Post subject: Revisiting rejected submissions due to rule changes
Memory
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There has been a lot of rule changes recently. The recent changes to educational games making them more acceptable and now the upcoming changes to tiers. We would like to try to go through rejected submissions to find examples that require revisiting judgment, but due to the sheer amount this might not be entirely feasible. This thread is for suggesting submissions to revisit based on changes to the rules. Please ONLY suggest submissions if a rule change has occurred and we missed this particular submission. This thread is not for soapboxing about existing rules you do not like, please create a different thread for that. Additionally the point of this thread is mainly for documentation so please keep chatter to a minimum. Any such posts will be considered off-topic and will be moved or outright grued. I would like people to in their posts link the submission in question and also list what rule change should affect judgment of this submission. This will help us more efficiently tackle submissions. Update per 10/2/2021: Forgoes Major Skip Glitch added to standard. Check the rules and the tag description for details. Feel free to suggest in the thread.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
MESHUGGAH
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Memory
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I think the only example of those that would be applicable at this point is Overlord, but somebody else submitted a TAS that improved on it and it was accepted. Aladdin I think we talked about at the time and agreed it shouldn't be accepted.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
MESHUGGAH
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I guess you missed my linked post suggesting wheel of fortune.
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Memory
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There have been no recent rule changes regarding game shows. This is for rule changes that have already happened, not desired rule changes. Read the first post.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
MESHUGGAH
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If I could understand what you guys thinking.... Ok, I will wait until the rules have been changed as I won't go through every submission each time the rules changes that affects unfortunate TASes. And yes, I will check every submission once the rules are final so I can continue my cry for punished TASes since 2013.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
Memory
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If you would like to have rules changed, that can go in other threads. If a thread doesn't exist, make one. This thread is specifically for rule changes that already happened and we forgot about a submission. We will soon be incorporating a major addition to Standard that will result in us needing to revisit a ton of submissions. I want this thread relatively clean so we can easily document if we have revisited a submission.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Samsara
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Memory wrote:
We will soon be incorporating a major addition to Standard that will result in us needing to revisit a ton of submissions.
This has now happened! While we still intend to do a full manual sweep in the near future, I'd like to officially open the thread up for suggestions so that I can take a look at them now. Please remember to keep discussion to an absolute minimum, this thread is for documentation and suggestion and is not meant for debate and soapboxing.
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I suggest to re-judge this rejected submission: #5656: Soig's Genesis Contra: Hard Corps "100%" in 1:17:21.79 The main reason it was rejected was due to the game not having an internal definition for full completion. However, it was later agreed to not be a requirement, starting from this precedent. There have also been other changes in the rules beside that, so I think it should be at least be considered for re-judging.
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: ThunderAxe31#1512 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
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Fog wrote:
The goal choices: Moving aside from the main category itself, how the run goes about reaching these goals is also an issue. To obtain all the endings, the game is reset after reaching each ending. This essentially makes this run a compilation of five different movies under a single movie file. As mentioned above, this doesn't fly for Vault tier, but could possibly make sense for something aiming for Moons.
It sounds like several completely independent movies glued together. There's no point in doing that unless that leads to a special ending in itself or completes a certain in-game mode in its entirety.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting. If TASing is meta-play, TASVideos Movie Rules are meta-meta-play!
Memory
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Soig doesn't want any additional runs of his published on TASVideos anyways.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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[Movie]1639[/movie] More of a reconsideration of the obsoletion chain than re-judgement I guess. If the currently published heavily glitchy runs of Pokemon Gen 1 are there on the basis of "absolutely fastest" and "no save corruption (but with ACE)", can this branch be revived as "no save corruption and no ACE"? Especially when this is actually faster than the ACE run. Alternatively, simply "no save corruption" works too if we consider the initial Japanese release to be different enough from later Gen 1 releases to be considered separate games for this category. #5239: Fortranm's DS Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin "Sisters Mode" in 24:42.75 Does this quality under the new Standard rules by any chance?
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Fortranm wrote:
[Movie]1639[/movie] More of a reconsideration of the obsoletion chain than re-judgement I guess. If the currently published heavily glitchy runs of Pokemon Gen 1 are there on the basis of "absolutely fastest" and "no save corruption (but with ACE)", can this branch be revived as "no save corruption and no ACE"? Especially when this is actually faster than the ACE run. Alternatively, simply "no save corruption" works too if we consider the initial Japanese release to be different enough from later Gen 1 releases to be considered separate games for this category.
Gen 1 is already a mess with its branching and the current "game end glitch" run really is only there because of high entertainment ratings allowing it in Moons (and I wouldn't be so certain that can even hold if an improvement just pops up). And the JPN glitch runs don't have that entertainment rating. There isn't a place for it in Standard really, so it probably can't be split off. (Also, you're comparing apples and oranges by comparing the select glitch runs without ACE with English GEG no save corruption runs. ACE is not so hard to trigger with the select glitch and would be faster too, granted little point to trying when no place on the site for such a run).
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CasualPokePlayer wrote:
Gen 1 is already a mess with its branching and the current "game end glitch" run really is only there because of high entertainment ratings allowing it in Moons (and I wouldn't be so certain that can even hold if an improvement just pops up). And the JPN glitch runs don't have that entertainment rating. There isn't a place for it in Standard really, so it probably can't be split off. (Also, you're comparing apples and oranges by comparing the select glitch runs without ACE with English GEG no save corruption runs. ACE is not so hard to trigger with the select glitch and would be faster too, granted little point to trying when no place on the site for such a run).
As a matter of fact, the JPN Green movie from 2010 has 18/19 Yes votes while the Yellow movie from 2019 has 10/12. With all due respect, I don't see where this entertainment argument is coming from. In a case where only one of these can be kept, shouldn't the Green one be preferred especially when it's faster? http://tasvideos.org/Samsara/MovieRulesRewrite/FullDraft.html I'm bringing this up mostly because of "If the fastest time for a game is an ACE run, we also allow a separate any% branch that foregoes it." from the rule rewriting draft. I suppose it's meant to represent the interpretation of the current rules. Or maybe it really only covers ACE as an exception but not immediate save corruption completion?
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Fortranm wrote:
CasualPokePlayer wrote:
Gen 1 is already a mess with its branching and the current "game end glitch" run really is only there because of high entertainment ratings allowing it in Moons (and I wouldn't be so certain that can even hold if an improvement just pops up). And the JPN glitch runs don't have that entertainment rating. There isn't a place for it in Standard really, so it probably can't be split off. (Also, you're comparing apples and oranges by comparing the select glitch runs without ACE with English GEG no save corruption runs. ACE is not so hard to trigger with the select glitch and would be faster too, granted little point to trying when no place on the site for such a run).
As a matter of fact, the JPN Green movie from 2010 has 18/19 Yes votes while the Yellow movie from 2019 has 10/12. With all due respect, I don't see where this entertainment argument is coming from. In a case where only one of these can be kept, shouldn't the Green one be preferred especially when it's faster? http://tasvideos.org/Samsara/MovieRulesRewrite/FullDraft.html I'm bringing this up mostly because of "If the fastest time for a game is an ACE run, we also allow a separate any% branch that foregoes it." from the rule rewriting draft. I suppose it's meant to represent the interpretation of the current rules. Or maybe it really only covers ACE as an exception but not immediate save corruption completion?
I was looking at movie ratings and not submission ratings, which does show Yellow game end glitch slightly outperforming Green warp glitch. Although admittingly it's not by that much considering the lack of votes for Yellow and entertainment is still in the 6.x average for the latest movie (and the previous movie was 5.x average just like both Green warp glitch movies). Perhaps if considering entertainment ratings of even older movies in Yellow game end glitch's branch then it makes more sense entertainment wise (the previous couple of movies with Red/Blue had 7.x average entertainment ratings, but that went away with Yellow popping up, and hard to compare considering the differences between the movies). Really this shows how fucked branching here is if anything. Still, I'm not sure where this thing from the rewrite is coming from, I would assume it is talking about Major Skips and No Major Skips, which wouldn't apply here anyways (the "no major skips" run would be the branchless run, with save corruption fulfilling the major skips run). Note that the rewrite will NOT change any rules, if the rewrite is then that is something that needs to be taken out.
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Fortranm wrote:
#5239: Fortranm's DS Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin "Sisters Mode" in 24:42.75 Does this quality under the new Standard rules by any chance?
To elaborate on this, is New Game+ (an unintended one in this case) now considered an independent game mode?
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It's only independent if it doesn't depend on prior completion.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting. If TASing is meta-play, TASVideos Movie Rules are meta-meta-play!
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#6033: xxNKxx's PSX Monster Rancher 2 in 59:33.13 Note that feos recently expressed agreement about my suggestion of revisiting this judgement: Post #509664
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: ThunderAxe31#1512 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
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#3658: Anonymous6327's Windows Super Mario XP in 13:20.00
turska wrote:
The movie uses an incorrect FPS setting, which causes highly distracting visual anomalities with this particular game. 50 seems to be the correct setting; this movie uses 60.
turska wrote:
NOT unrejected under the neo-TASVideos publication system, since the technical issues regarding the Hourglass settings are still sufficient for rejection.
I suppose this has more to do with technicalities than rules, but has anyone tried if it still syncs once the frame rate setting is adjusted?
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Fortranm wrote:
I suppose this has more to do with technicalities than rules, but has anyone tried if it still syncs once the frame rate setting is adjusted?
Memory wrote:
Please ONLY suggest submissions if a rule change has occurred and we missed this particular submission. [...] I would like people to in their posts link the submission in question and also list what rule change should affect judgment of this submission.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting. If TASing is meta-play, TASVideos Movie Rules are meta-meta-play!
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#5997: EZGames69's Uzebox Melli's Retro land in 04:38.92 This was rejected due to game choice and being too trivial. However I feel like the triviality reason could be relooked at for this, and perhaps game choice too since Uzebox games are pretty much all considered homebrews anyway.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
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EZGames69 wrote:
#5997: EZGames69's Uzebox Melli's Retro land in 04:38.92 This was rejected due to game choice and being too trivial. However I feel like the triviality reason could be relooked at for this, and perhaps game choice too since Uzebox games are pretty much all considered homebrews anyway.
Do you ever have to slow down?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting. If TASing is meta-play, TASVideos Movie Rules are meta-meta-play!
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The Thunder Star icon is a creation of mine a few years ago and is associated with Marbleous Racing. Currently Watching: - Mylo the Cat: Shortest Video on YouTube Series - Ace Trainer Liam: Form Fight, MetroMania Currently Playing: - Marble World - Jelle's Marble League (postponed for now) - Bloons TD 5 Currently TASing: - Pokemon Stadium - NES Tetris Soon to be Watching: - Fubeca's Marble Runs: GlassCar 2023 - Jelle's Marble Runs: Marble Rally Season 6 - Mylo the Cat: Shortest Video on YouTube Part 1000
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These will probably fall into either more queries about these submissions instead and probably pushing Playground rather than Accepting, but I'll do my best to go through and explain these few. #6795: Spikestuff's NES Road Worker in 06:11.19 Due to the triviality rule being changed which impacted this TAS, I believed the rules changed enough where it should be acceptable now, but considering that there is talks for it to be loosened further this one can probably stay in the abyss for a bit longer, it's 100% an autoscroller, with all the solutions done in less time than that. #2037: DarkKobold's SegaCD Dragon's Lair in 10:45.65 / #5888: Spikestuff's SegaCD Dragon's Lair in 10:48.95 The first of which was cancelled by the author, the latter which is slower than the prior due to emulation differences... and also the death of Vault. (Basically asking for a confirmation on what would happen to this title in this day and age. Sidebar; I'm fine with resyncing my submission forward to a newer version of Hawk.) #5884: Spikestuff's NES Pictionary: The Game of Video Quick Draw "Alternative Game" in 01:03.25 / #5939: warmCabin's NES Pictionary: The Game of Video Quick Draw "all minigames" in 02:33.75 / #5940: DrD2k9's NES Pictionary: The Game of Video Quick Draw in 01:37.24 The prior probably lands in Playground than in comparison to the actual go for fastest without doing the minigame, but answering the puzzle, and showcasing all the minigames whilst going through it quickly. #5289: Spikestuff's NES Mario Bros. "1 player, 18 phases" in 07:39.79 Failed to reach Moons due to older ruleset where the only way it could be accepted as its own thing was to be Moons, but it wasn't entertaining and it made it ineligible for Vault. With current ruleset in the way they are this should land in Standard due to how it differentiates itself to the 2 player TAS. #5553: Spikestuff's PSX Digimon Rumble Arena in 05:39.26 The reason why this was rejected doesn't exist anymore, so-- thud. I reminded myself of this TASes' existence, if I can think of anything I'll write about it, otherwise idk.
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#5854: ThunderAxe31's GBC Toki Tori in 42:20.24 Leaving this here as a reminder to myself, in accordance with Post #514335... And also as a reminder to myself to check what's been posted here. Heck, dang, jeez, I've been slacking on this stuff.
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